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ctfchallenge | all galleries >> Challenge 148 - Outside the Box >> Challenge 148 - Eligible > 7th: Out of the Box
by Lydia too
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12-06-07 Lydia too

7th: Out of the Box
by Lydia too


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Rod 15-Dec-2007 08:06
Julie there's enough known & written about Ansel Adams to know he would hate this sort of creation being called art in photography. While he was still alive I remember reading plenty of quotes from the great man on what he thought about the art. Do you think I'm just making things up about what Ansel Adams said? You say we will never know what Ansel Adams thinks, you must mean about Photoshop creations. We know an awful lot about what Adams thought about the art of photography so it's not very hard to extrapolate what he would have thought about Photoshop creations. This quote may offer an insight.
"“Not everybody trusts paintings but people believe photographs.”
Now using this quote with the knowledge of other readings about the man he was a stickler for showing in his final print what he saw with his own eyes. Now he saw what a lot of others didn't see, a vast tonal range in B&W. Our eyes are much like a camera if you use your peripheral vision you will see that if you look into deep shadows you see plenty of detail & the highlights in your peripheral vision will be blown out, as soon as you look into the blown area the iris shuts down & it's not blown but the shadow area becomes featureless & dark in our peripheral vision. Adams could see all of this & tried to get this vision into a print. He never altered the prints into something he never saw with his own eyes, this would be abhorrent to him.He was quite a diplomatic man but he loved to drink & go to parties & this is where his less diplomatic quotes as told to friends would come out, one of these as I stated below is that colour photography has no place in the art of photography. So it's not too hard to be certain he would dismiss out of hand Photoshop creations being included in the art of photography. Of course Photoshop creations can be & is an art form, just not under the heading of photography as some here want it to be. Why people can't just enjoy doing their Photoshop work & good on em, just don't try & pervert the art of photography by calling these grapics Photographs.
The BBCs Photographer of year awards stipulate that only an unsharp mask & some use of the curves tool can be used in submissions. Maybe they're Luddites like me & Ansel:-)
ctfchallenge11-Dec-2007 02:33
You're right, b.c. I wonder why that is, I took the cutout photo of him, turned it into a sillouette and then stretched it taller and laid it down. I never adjusted the shoulder at all. Weird.
Armin, hmmm... perhaps. I'd like to see your version. I'm too lazy and have to do it with PS. *grin* I thank you for appreciating my result. Truly.
I've enjoyed the criticism as it makes me think about why I've done what I've done.
Thank you also, Encouragers. I'm so insecure in my abilities that your praise means much to me. ~Lydia
ctfchallenge10-Dec-2007 18:54
so creative! one minor nit-pick, the shadow of his shoulder doesn't quite look right (rising up vs drooping shoulder) - b.c.
ctfchallenge10-Dec-2007 15:39
extremely well done - Debi
ctfchallenge09-Dec-2007 12:07
Lydia, thats really creative and perfectly executed...
....Maurice
Julie Bird09-Dec-2007 06:49
Lydia, to my eyes, this is art and photography. I only wish I had the skills to do this as well as you. I would love to know what Ansell would have thought, and of course we will never know, but for a man who was willing to work as hard at his art as he did, I imagine he would have commended your skill and tenacity. Julie
ctfchallenge08-Dec-2007 21:01
Imagine this scene: a box like this in the foreground, the son in this pose e.g. at a door in the bg, and now the challenge: to place the box in a way, that it would look like this picure...I know, identical would not be possible, but I am quite sure, that one could come up with something equally convincing by clever choice of perspective and exposure...just a thought :o)
Armin
Rod 08-Dec-2007 20:40
Poor ole Ansel would be turning over in his grave if he knew he had become the patron saint of photoshoppers. Yes he spent many hours even days in the darkroom trying to recreate what he had seen with his own eyes & camera. None of his finished prints looked any different to what he saw at the time of clicking the shutter. All he tried to do was to recreate the grandeur of the scene he captured, he did this by developing the Zone system where he exposed the picy in the camera unlike anyone else so he could bring out the greatest number of tones in his finished prints. He would wait for the right light & conditions before taking the picy he never had the attitude of "Oh that will do I will fix in in the darkroom" The only thing he ever did was to get the greatest tonal range in his shots, he never added or subtracted from the image he captured with the camera. He also hated colour photography saying it had no place in the art of photography.
Out of the box means to me that we try & do something completely different with our camera & our way of seeing, we don't have to venture into the world of graphic & commercial arts & trying to con ourselves that this is creative photography.
ctfchallenge08-Dec-2007 19:33
He looks like you too, Lydia. At a *quick* first glance I wondered if it was you ":^D) Weighing in on this discussion, I say, "Why limit yourself?" This seems to me to be about IMAGE QUALITY in every sense of the words. If its well done, so be it, regardless of what program (or development technique) was used. Ansel Adams spent hours in the darkroom *changing* what he'd captured into what he wanted to express and no one would ever call him a graphic artist, tho artist he was. Talent for producing attractive images is TALENT for producing attractive images, whether its one alone, two, three or more images in a composite. Speaking of thinking "in the box", Rod ... what exactly does that phrase mean?
Again, good work, Lydia. Cheers, -mikey
ctfchallenge08-Dec-2007 14:36
But again, I really do like the result here :o)
Armin
ctfchallenge08-Dec-2007 14:31
True, it is only an opinion, but not only Rod's :o)
It is also mine, although I do repect the skill behind this picture and the result is great...but personally I prefer pure shots, too, and my manipulation typically ends with what would have been possible in the former dark room :)
Cheers, Armin
Daniel Bollag08-Dec-2007 13:21
You forgot to add, Rod, that your opinion is just that: just an opinion; and just yours! Outdated, anyway, in *my* opinion. (I don't ever do any of *that* sort of photoshopping, at all; I wouldn't even have the necessary talent nor the skill to do so. But I've come to accept it as part of contemporary photography.) Congratulations, Lydia too: you really show us something *Out Of The Box*! Nice concept; well executed. -- db.
Rod 08-Dec-2007 12:07
The simple answer is my dear that Photography is wot you capture in your camera. This simple rule has applied from the beginning wiv collodion plates through to 35mm film & onto digital. Using a Graphic design program such as Photoshop has nothing to do wiv creativity in the photographic field. I have the utmost respect for your sons views but if I was you I would wait until his frontal lobe has fully developed, normally at about 25 years of age before you fully except his version of wot photography is or isn't:-) None of us needs to defend what we enjoy doing in the short time we're here on this planet but what we mustn't do is try & pervert an art form to fit in with out own musings.
A Photoshopped creation using picys as a base can be a thing of art but what it defiantly isn't is a photograph. The art of photography is producing photographs not graphics.................Don't get me started I've only had three beers:-)
ctfchallenge07-Dec-2007 23:26
Thank you, Doug.

TV, I'll be sure to remember your words when I'm feeling inadequate about my talents. Please do join in and compete. I'm positive you'll come up with a seriously competitive shot, as usual. *sigh*

Kelly, yes he is our eldest son. And yes, he is the culprit who talked me into trying PS "just one time". He told me that not using everything that's available now to make a good image is just the same as if we'd stopped at using the collodion plates and never started on our journey to film and then to digital photography.
If one wants to be a 'photography purist', how exactly will one decide where to stop to still remain 'pure' when technology continues to advance? Will this spot advance with technology, only a few steps behind? Or will one always think that THIS spot we're in is 'pure' photography? Why wasn't film photography where we should have stopped? Who decided this?
If the first photographers felt the way some folks feel, you and I would still be using collodion plates. I'm not saying I'm right to use PS, I'm just wondering how we decide what's pure photography and what's not. ~ Lydia
ctfchallenge07-Dec-2007 21:12
Lydia - well done! Is this young man your son? ... the very same who inspired your perspective on using Photoshop? Although I don't blame him for wanting to hide in this tiny box as there seems to be one or two so keenly interested in keeping him inside the box - almost xenophobic - but Sharon, as you know, has ever so kindly tried to make this a friendlier challenge where he's encouraged to come out of his box. Best wishes and keep up the good work! - Kelly
ctfchallenge07-Dec-2007 19:39
This is so expertly done that I'm giving up any thought of competing with it. Clever take on The Incredible Shrinking Man with the cat lurking around a corner somewhere, but I'm with Rod on this.. it's difficult to mix in the same competition straight and Photoshopped images. They operate on different plains. -tv
Rod 07-Dec-2007 18:31
Don't encourage her Doug a thumbs down will only do Lydia good:-)
Guest 07-Dec-2007 17:36
Photoshop vs. Photography: It's creative enough for me to give it a thumbs up. -COAmature
ctfchallenge07-Dec-2007 14:48
Your 'yuck' has been noted, Rod. *grin*
Sue Anne, I took two photos, took the guy from a regular setting and cut him out. Plopped him here, made shadows (made another layer of the guy and altered and distorted him) to fit the light sources of the guy shot (so hard for me to set them both up with the same light sources. I need to work on this to save myself some trouble.), and then matched the color of the two photos to blend. Thanks for enjoying it. ~Lydia
Rod 07-Dec-2007 07:02
A yuck from me:-)
sue anne07-Dec-2007 03:51
Reminds me of 'Tiny people' - how did you do this? This is all greek to me. ;)
ctfchallenge07-Dec-2007 00:26
Thanks bunches, Mikey... and Charlie, Lonnit and dtallakson. I had great fun doing this. The gentleman is 6'1" and the box is 1' high. Kinda small for a piano. *grin* ~Lydia
ctfchallenge06-Dec-2007 22:39
Well done Lydia. Those shadows must have been very tricky to do. dtallakson
Canon DSLR Challenge06-Dec-2007 21:33
Nice creativity! ~ Lonnit
Charlie Beck06-Dec-2007 21:14
Looks like he's glad to get out of that box! Did someone ship you a piano? LOL. Nice shot.
ctfchallenge06-Dec-2007 19:59
Far out of the box, Lydia!! I can't figure out if you have a Lilliputian (very small person) model at home, or if you have a very large (strangely shaped) box. The shadows in the box lead me to ... confusion. Nicely done (fast, too). Cheers, -mikey