Thought * by ctfchallenge

ctfchallenge | all galleries >> Challenge 106 - "T" >> C106 - Eligible > Thought *


4/30/06	jstrong

Thought *

You must have thought before ideas form.

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Paul Bates		08-May-2006 14:18
I think the important thing for a forum like this is to address "how", but not "what". The nature of the contest is photographs with subject matter or actions that begin with "Tt". Each photographer decides "what" to shoot, and the others constructively critique "how" they shot and rendered the work. Help the selected "what" be the best it can be. I am sure that there are some boundaries for "what" way out there somewhere, but that was not witnessed in this competition. I don't think we want photographers to feel like they did the wrong thing, which is not possible in my mind. They should feel that they could always do it better, and thats where everyone else comes in. Paul

Rod		08-May-2006 07:39
I'm not talking about you Jano, you silly billy. You're amongst the nicest people here, I'm more referring to the Prima Donnas that left us for the land of unbridled praise. Even though they may have influenced you slightly by you using their silly way of complimenting a picy by saying it could be an ad or stock shot. It sounds very pretentious to me & it goes to some posters heads & they start thinking they’re better than they are. Awesome & fantastic:-) is the best way to compliment us hobbyists as we need no pretence that we are on the verge of professionalism. Don’t forget there’s a lot of professional wedding & portrait photographers out there earning a living who are pretty hopeless photographers. They are just earning a living & the love of photography has died in them from doing such a boring job as straight weddings & portraits where they’re not allowed to be creative as everyone wants a well lit shot of themselves smiling at the camera. Creative wedding photography without the on camera flash & portrait photography would be more a niche market I would think. Anyhow anyone can be a pro these days just send heaps of picys to the stock agencies & the law of averages means you will sell a shot some day.

ctfchallenge		07-May-2006 20:08
I meant it of course as a compliment to Blade, and certainly didn't even think of money when I use the word "stock". How excited have ppl in these forums and others gotten when their picy got picked out of a "stock" site to be used in an advertisement? I think Blade's picy was perfectly conceived and shot and I know others out there would think so as well. I doubt you make much muhla even if your pic is picked....but knowing that it was so well done that it was picked would be a great compliment. My head isn't swollen in the least..... Just having fun :) jano

Rod		07-May-2006 19:44
We're here to have fun I agree, but it seems heads can swell in this little pond & that's what I find very amusing & Just do me best to un-swell em:-) I'm all for people shooting whatever they like too Techo I'm just commenting on the use of the word stock as a compliment along with the association of making money, both an irrelevance to how good a shot is. If people want to say a shot is good then say it's good, why mention stock, the connotations of money or knowledge? Music is a big subject Techo & understanding the words in a song in an irrelevance for me also, as the musical instruments & the voice convey all the feelings needed in a piece of music not the understanding of the words. Understanding the words have no bearing on the feel they get from the music for a lot of people. So watching a visual to listen to music is really too saturated for me mate, & lots of other music lovers. I don’t watch much TV, especially commercial TV so the Waxman add is out as a reference init:-) Nice to see you out & getting involved Techo mate:-)

ctfchallenge		07-May-2006 15:41
I think it's a really good shot. The lighting is just perfect, and makes the message come across, with some extra fill light on the left side of his face as if it's illuminated by the light of the bulb/idea. And coupled with the boy's emotion, it all comes together nicely. (*)just two nitpicks. The bottom is cut off a bit too early and the lightbulb is just a tad astray from his line of sight. To quote Rod : "Commercialim & art normally collide not mix" Really doesn't matter to me. We're here to learn and have fun. So if folks have a stock style photo they want to shoot. I'm all for it. I'm all for any style of art :P Looks like a lot of thought was put into this, and I won't say this is not art because it is afterall subjective and always open to interpretation. You see it that way, others don't, boring if everyone agreed all the time ;) Photos that may scream out stock to me doesn't dimmish their artful appeal to me, there are exceptions though and so what, some other people might find it artful. When some people say a shot could be used for an add, I reckon it's their way as saying it's just soooo good :) "The same way a serious musician would be insulted if I said his music could be used for an add jingle or sound track." Now that's insulting LOL. Some of the most beautiful words of music are soundtracks, pffft. What ST's are you listening too Rod!? Mr. Waxman won't come and wax your floors anymore :P -Techo

Rod		06-May-2006 21:48
Depends on wot you call art init blade. Commercialim & art normally collide not mix. I think in America the word art is used for wot we call hobbies & the hobbyists are called artists. Like at Pbase the word artist is used instead of the word photographer. No wonder you lot sound up yourselves to us lot:-)

Guest		06-May-2006 17:32
what's great about art is that it can be subjective; thus allowing us the freedom to explore ourselves without being resigned to any prescribed molds. it is what it is. blade

Rod		06-May-2006 06:18
I hear this a lot here, " this could be used in an add" "this could be used for stock" As though this infers wot a great shot. Most of the shots used for stock or ads are rubbish in the context of the realms of photography as an art. If I wanted to insult the work of a serious photographer I would say that shot could be used for an add or a bleeding stock shot. Would any of you use these terms for a shot of Bresson, Adams Weston, Frank, etc, etc. The same way a serious musician would be insulted if I said his music could be used for an add jingle or sound track. Selling a shot has no bearing on how good it is if you're interested in photography as an art form. Just make sure you all take the frame & sig off before submitting to the stock agency And don't forget one..........................................................................I luvs youse all:-)

janewigginsphotography		05-May-2006 21:42
Thanks Blade - I had never seen that pic prior. You did a GREAT job. Certainly could be used for stock!!!!! JANO

Guest		05-May-2006 20:00
jano, nothing wrong with it in my eyes. http://www.pbase.com/blademeister/image/56240495 Only PS on my pic was I cloned out the base of the bulb stand that supplied the electricity. I worked hard on that picture; the composition, the lighting, but it only got like four votes. blade

janewigginsphotography		04-May-2006 21:48
No tornado watches or warnings yet...but i'm hopeful before the end of the challenge ! :) I'm not sure what the lightbulb thought/idea looks like as I haven't seen it... guess this is how I imagined it would look :) jano

arminb		04-May-2006 19:53
No fuzz at all, just constructive fighting :o)

ctfchallenge		04-May-2006 19:17
According to Webster, "thought" and "idea" can be used interchangably. I think it's the lightbulb suspended in air without a cartoon-like balloon around it that kind of throws me off a little as it almost seems as though it's been tossed up in the air. And where do you live that you're under a tornado watch! :-) CJ

janewigginsphotography		04-May-2006 17:35
Thanks CJ - i totally agree with your thoughts on pp, or "manipulation". Hard to say where a line should be drawn as this photo probably has less "manipulation" than some of the others in this or previous challenges. The pop up would be a good idea...but then that would be a composite image .... but i may do it on my own. Isn't an idea a thought??? Can you have one w/o the other? I will probably leave the bulb in now cause i think any message would be lost at this point. Now I'm waiting for that TORNADO to hit .... lol jano

ctfchallenge		04-May-2006 17:29
I like your shot Jano, and I'm not sure what all the fuss is about "manipulation" as we all use PS techniques to make our pictures look better, and usually better than what we saw in reality! Take Deo's "Tomb" picture for instance, which almost everyone thinks looks great, but if it hadn't been PSed, wouldn't have the same impact. I think there's room in this challenge for all our different takes on photography, from completely "natural" shots, to PSed shots, to beautiful "studio" shots like Techo's "Tangerine". It would be really boring if we all took the same kinds of pictures all the time. PS is a tool for us to use and you did a good job of it! A lightbulb does usually make me think of a sudden "bright idea" rather than the contemplation of "thought", so I could see either eliminating the lightbulb, as he does look like he's thinking about something, or using MORE manipulation in this picture. He could be thinking about racing cars for instance, and I think it would be fun to see a cartoon balloon over his head showing him "thinking" about a car or some other fun thing. I like the concept of the picture and the pose and lighting. My only other "thought" would be that there is a really shallow DOF here and it looks as though the front part of his face is OOF and that his hairline is the sharpest part of the picture, although a soft look in portraits looks good. Anyway, I think it's a good picture of your cute son with a great expression on his face. - what a terrific model - he's very photogenic! :-) CJ

janewigginsphotography		04-May-2006 17:22
Lee - the dslr probably won't help with these crazy ideas in my head will it? The dslr is coming - hopefully this year :) lol

Guest		04-May-2006 16:30
Get the DSLR. theFly

ArminB		04-May-2006 14:46
Hmpf, no one understands me ;o) I've seen comparable bulb shots before, e.g. at blademeister's pbase - but ok, as you wish: a milder one from me and the points for creativity :) ...although I still think, that the shot without the bulb would work better (at least for me). Cheers, Armin

janewigginsphotography		04-May-2006 11:05
Forgot to mention, I finally figured the best way to place the lightbulb on the white backboard was just to use double tape, and it worked ok. jano

janewigginsphotography		04-May-2006 11:01
go ahead and give it the milder yuck Rod :) but give me at least 1.4 points for creativity? hehe jano

janewigginsphotography		04-May-2006 11:00
I'll post the orig here My thoughts are obviously the lightbulb should not look "real"... I mean who goes around with a lightbulb over their heads? Of course the image is enhanced but that's my way of creating what was in my head (and granted we were in some time constraints when I took these). Maybe the lightbulb is not needed, but that's a different topic I think than manipulation. I just don't have any problem with pp in creating something extraordinary, not that this image is that.... but in general. Maybe i'm crazy....? or need a dslr :) jano

Rod		04-May-2006 10:40
Jano, where did the light bulb come from, did you just stick it to the background & take the shot? I assumed you Photo shopped it in hence me comment about manipulation. If the bulb is part of your original shot then I will just give it a milder yuck for a silly idea:-)

arminb		04-May-2006 08:21
Maybe an addtional comment to explain my point of view. A ball about to fall into a game; lovely idea - but why use a ball with a stand and clone the stand out - why not prefocus on the ball with stand - and then do an actual shot with the ball in flight. That would show the skills I've trying to learn here. I know, I've once cloned out a very thin nylon rope for my 'early morning beast', but only since I still need the razor ;o) - but I would have loved to be able to do this shot with a light, that would have hidden the nylon - and it was one of my first shots... A mouse door in a living room wall, great idea, but why use two shots and manipulate them together? Why not use e.g. a piece of paper, stick it to the wall and draw the door, or take a shot of a door, print it in the right size and stick it to the wall? PP makes it too easy for my taste and I have not a single composite in my pbase. Cloning out a washing rope and 'washing holders' for a jeans shot - cloning out a whole person for a jeans shot - doing a studio shot, adding an outside bg picture and layering it in - well, these are the things, that I try to avoid - because it's my understanding, that this should be all about photography and not graphical artwork. From my more than 48'000 shots now, I've done it four times as far as I remember, three times partial desaturation, to test the effect, and once the nylon thing - why so many shots? Mostly due to repetition of a bad shot, where I didn't like the outcome and tried again, and again, and again...sometimes 100s of tries. And no, I'm not argueing because I'm jealous about pp capabilities, I'm quite capable of pp as well - but to repeat myself what's the point in photography? For graphical arts - of course. Cheers, Armin

arminb		04-May-2006 06:11
Hi Jano! The picture - whether the bulb was inserted by post processing or not - doesn't look natural at all - but strongly manipulated, even in the case you didn't insert it manually afterwards. The bulb is an element, that spoils the shot for my eyes - for one, as it is not needed, 2nd as it doesn't look natural (how should it without electricity, but also due to the post work on it) - and therefore, it immediately reminds me of a place where post processed compos are praised at least as much as (if not more than) a good but unmanipulated shot. I think - so it's an imho only - we are here to learn photography, to share, to enjoy the community, to get inspiration - therefore, I have a problem with too much pp - I'm still questioning myself if the desaturation of the right corner in my thornless picture is ok or already too much manipulation...because in principle Rod's right (I've never said that!!! ;o) ) - I should have achieved that effect by proper composition while shooting! But that's my opinion - and again a quote: Why should we take pictures when there's photoshop...

Photogenix		04-May-2006 03:52
Agree with Rod and Brent. The photo of the kid (the expression, exposure, framing is just right)...feel there is no need to photoshop in the bulb....assuming its photoshoped). - RK

Canon DSLR Challenge		04-May-2006 00:01
Well done. theFly

janewigginsphotography		03-May-2006 20:48
Thanks for all the comments. jano

ctfchallenge		03-May-2006 17:58
Ditto what Brent said... /Oved

Brent		03-May-2006 16:32
Think I have to agree that the image already does an excellent job of getting "thought" across without the light bulb which to me is distracting and says "idea" more to me than thought. Still, very nice :-)

Britt		03-May-2006 15:33
I'm not sure about this one either...I absolutely love the look on his face, but agree that it might be better without the lightbulb above him.

aam1234		03-May-2006 14:33
I really like this one J.

ctfchallenge		03-May-2006 11:22
Hi Rod and Armin. I'm not sure what "CSLR lke" means as I dont' frequent over there much. I only did some levels, curve adjustment, bright/contrast and slight noise adjustment to the image as a whole. Added some lens flare to the light bulb, and went over it with a little edges so it stood out more. So.... what's been "manipulated" to the point of "yuck"? jano

arminb		03-May-2006 08:25
Hm, cannot understand it either, you take so lovely shots, but I have to agree to Rod, this looks very CSLR like - and I do not see any need for that, the expression in the face is self-explaining, the post work very visible due to the different pixel size...if I look at the jeans challenge, there are really great and funny shots there, but some with so much manipulation spoiling everything...sorry, but a little yuck from me as well :o)

Rod		03-May-2006 06:15
This looks like a typical Cslr challenge shot 50% picy 50% Photoshop manipulation......Yuck from me:-)

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