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ctfchallenge | all galleries >> The Best of CTF Challenges >> Best of 2005 > Not for You
2nd Place
Lonnit Rysher
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21-JAN-2005 Lonnit Rysher

Not for You
2nd Place
Lonnit Rysher

Can you see all the values in the greyscale ramp below? If not, adjust the brightness of your montitor so even the first and last 3 boxes are visible.

Canon EOS 10D ,Phoenix 19-35mm
1/60s f/6.7 at 27.0mm iso200 full exif

other sizes: small medium original auto
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Rod 31-Jan-2005 17:13
You two can count me out:-)
ctfchallenge31-Jan-2005 01:38
I don't know what could be more daring. I guess if you were a woman I'd say how about a no makeup self portrait challenge! LOL! I'm game for mostly anything you might come up with! ~ Lonnit
iso320030-Jan-2005 19:31
Glad you rose to the challenge. Accomplished shot. Guess I'm on the lookout for another dare now. :)
Julian Hebbrecht28-Jan-2005 22:32
And the good thing is, we've now got a nice gray scale in our challenge windows. Thanks to Pops.
ctfchallenge28-Jan-2005 19:08
What a relief to hear you say that! PHEW!!! If we've all done some monitor tweaking to get more in line with eachother, then it was worth the effort. :) ~ Lonnit
Rod 28-Jan-2005 08:01
I agree, leave it alone now it's looking good. You sure have worked overtime on this project & we've all learnt a thing or two. Hopefully all our monitors should be within reason now:-)
ctfchallenge28-Jan-2005 05:37
Ok Rod, I reworked it to get the other window back in, and I spent a ton of time getting the legs so they would be visible, but just barely. I'm not getting a flawless match to what I see in PS once I load it up here, but it is very close. In PS of course I'm seeing it just perfectly and the legs are an iota lighter. It's just not worth working it any further b/c even if I do get an absolutely flawless match to PS on my monitor, everyone else's monitor will have different settings anyway so I have no end user control. The most important thing is that I was able to restore the window element on the left, which I hadn't completed on the last one. So THIS IS IT!!!!! ~ Lonnit
ctfchallenge28-Jan-2005 04:12
And also the longest thread - ran up almost a whole page of 150 posts too! The hit counter is spinning around very nicely as well with 724 hits. If I'd charged $2 a hit I could have my L lens! LOL!!! ~ Lonnit
ctfchallenge27-Jan-2005 09:31
Jeeze, Lonnit...I think you've set the record for having the longest comments dialogue in the history of the challenge! LOL
Gayle
ctfchallenge27-Jan-2005 03:59
Yes, Jim, I've been quite busy! I filled a whole thread discussing my monitor problems! I did fix the things you mentioned. The last thing you mentioned - the darkening of the middle of the body - was the way it was supposed to be, and how it appeared on my monitor. It turned out my brightness was too low resulting in many people seeing too light a version, which ruined the image by divulging the clothing. Thank you for pointing out the items I overlooked. I was in too much of a rush to get the shot posted.


Yes, Rod, you are right about those windows. That was one thing I didn't double check and I do have to add that bit of sparkle back in. It was not actually a reflection, but a second window. My brightness is now set at about 20%, however the 3 last boxes and the 3 first are all visible at any brightness setting higher than this, all the way up to 100%. Doesnt' make it easy to know what's right, huh. I thought the chart you recommended was excellent for knowing precisely which brighness is indeed righ. My gamma setting was spot on. I'm still curious how it will compare to a print. Thanks again. ~ Lonnit
Jim B (MSP)26-Jan-2005 20:47
Lonnit,
While I've been away, you have been very busy. You fixed everything I alluded to - and then some. It looks like you have have it perfect - at least perfect to me.
Jim
Rod 26-Jan-2005 19:28
I have just noticed that what for me was a nice touch has disappeared in this version. The reflection of the window on the wall behind.
Rod 26-Jan-2005 19:23
I can just see barely see the legs of the chair & an improvement in the leg shadows. I still like the first shot much better. After setting up me monitor ala Norman the screen was brighter than my print outs so I've darkened it to suit. Strange thing is I could still see all 26 tones in the ramp with both settings
Guest 26-Jan-2005 15:59
AHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Finally! Sounds like you are seeing it precisely the way I presented it. Last night after going to that site that Rod recommended for setting brightness http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html#gammachart) I was able to finally determine the proper screen brighness and re-worked the image one more time to be right for that setting. Thank you! And thanks again Rod! ~ Lonnit
ctfchallenge26-Jan-2005 09:21
This is much better. It now has a dark, sexy, shadowy look that works great! There's enough shadow to add mystery and suspense, and enough light to see what's "not for you"
Gayle
ctfchallenge25-Jan-2005 21:46
Thanks Brian. I'm glad you appreciate the shadowing on the face. I was going for the mystery and unattainablity.

As dark as in the beginning? The beginning was waaaay to light! I've fixed it yet again so the left leg is now visable - it had disappeared. Is that better? As for the rule of thirds, yes, sometimes it needs to be broken. When I tried cropping off the top it didn't seem balanced to me. I tried to figure out why. That is when I came up with the list of supporting evidence - it wasn't just the thirds grid, it was all the other angles in the shot as well. When you order your poster you can request a special cropping; for my dear friend Julian I'll omit the surcharge! ;) LOL!

~ Lonnit
Guest 25-Jan-2005 20:55
These are both great shots Lonnit. While I do like the impact that the black and white photograph has, I still favor this one. In contrast to “Don’t Look”, the sliver of light illuminating your nose and mouth, while the rest of your face is shadowed by your hat, brings a mysterious and forbidden feeling to this image. This strengthens the body language (=“Not for you”) I feel you so skillfully illustrated. Also, incase you are wondering, the grayscale ramp looks fine on my monitor. Great job!
Julian Hebbrecht25-Jan-2005 14:08
On my monitor too! You changed it again?? I can't see the color on the face anymore and it looks a bit too dark again, just like it was in the beginning!
And about the rule of thirds - the final result is always more important than the theory about it.
Rod 25-Jan-2005 09:21
On my monitor you have just ruined this shot. If you think it's my monitor then explain how every other shot here looks just fine. I can also see every square on the tone scale. More details are in my post in the main thread.
ctfchallenge25-Jan-2005 05:34
This stupid thing keeps reverting to the original! I renamed the file and reuploaded it, so now it should finally stick.

A crop there seems to kill the thirds. Right now the bottom of the thighs run along the lower third, the hands run along the top third, and the angle of the line of the lower half of each leg leads down to an angle that intersects the left and right thirds lines at the bottom edge of the shot. The angle lines of each forearm runs along a line that connects from each lower corner on the same side as each arm and follows thru to intersect at the point on the opposites sides where the left and right thirds lines intersect the top edge of the shot. Additionally, the shadow line across the face also lines up precisely with that digonal line that runs up the left hand side of the shot, thru the forearm. The triangle that is created by the intersection of these right and left diagonal lines meets directly at the corner of the L-shaped area that is formed by the hat and its brim. Chopping off the top completely alters all the angles and intersections. Also, the bottom of the shot is heavier because it has more light. The vast majority of the weight of the shot is in the bottom third and therefore needs to have the full upper two-thirds as counterweight for balance. So, yes, I thought of cropping it myself, but immediately realized the importance of leaving it as is because I managed to do it right in-camera. :)

I'm glad it's looking right now. Yes, the contrast had to be turned up a bit b/c when I corrected the brightness I saw that the contrast had gone totally flat.

BTW, thank you for the respect you showed by not embedding an alteration. :) They really do bother me. Besides making a person feel badly, particularly if they are a newbie and it might deflate and discourage them, it can make any person, no matter what their level of experience, feel robbed of the opportunity to try the suggestions for themselves. Doing so takes the ownership of the image away from them. I feel it's better to make the suggestions and let them have a chance to try it out for themselves and see how they like it. In the process of making those changes, they may discover other tweaks they might want to add as well. When they come back with the new image there is that pride of having this shot that you took and you edited all by yourself. If someone else edits it and they go and copy the editing then they lose that ownership and feel it's now a joint effort and they can no longer take the credit. If they do the editing themselves based on someone else's suggestions, they still own the whole image b/c they did all the work.

Now, of course, if they follow your (you, generic, not you personally!) suggestions but misinterpret what you said, or are having a hard time with it, you can of course, comment on it, explaining where they misunderstood or where you might have still done it a bit differently. If they ask to see what you have in mind, by all means do the edits and then put a link to it in the comments, but certainly don't embed it, for all the reasons I mentioned the other day. If they understood what you suggested but decided they didn't like it or went some other way with it, again, by all means, if they are thru attempting your suggestions, do the edits yourself and again provide a link with a nice little note saying that you played with it and ask them what they think. I do sincerely believe it would absolutely be the right thing to do to first ask the person if they mind you tinkering with it. This way they can ask you to wait first so they can have the opportunity to give it a try. Right? :)

Thanks ~ Lonnit
Julian Hebbrecht24-Jan-2005 22:43
Oh, I forgot to add that I would crop off half of the black area above the hat.
Julian Hebbrecht24-Jan-2005 22:37
I didn't change my monitor settings - the ramp looks fine - and your image looks great to me now after you adjusted it. Did you also turn up the contrast a tiny bit? I agree with you that's it's not correct to post en altered version of someone's photo work in a forum unless the photographer asked for help with retouching, etc.
Julian
ctfchallenge24-Jan-2005 20:12
After discovering that my monitor was calibrated too dark, I've corrected it and now the image should show as it was intended. It is meant to be quite dark so there is mystery in the shadows.

For those of you that were seeing it right before and it is now too dark, you probably have your monitor set too brightly, like I did. Look at the grayscale ramp. Do you see distinct differences between the blackest 3 shades and the whitest 3 shades? If not adjust your monitor brightness until you do.~ Lonnit
alexeig23-Jan-2005 23:03
Great legs, Lonnit ... and great light
Rod 23-Jan-2005 05:05
That's a lot better photographically speaking....................plus me eyes are not distracted from the focal point.....or should I say focal points:-)
ctfchallenge23-Jan-2005 00:45
Ok guys, I cloned out the white metal on the right and the reflection above the head. ~ Lonnit
Canon DSLR Challenge22-Jan-2005 05:58
The face was only lightened the most miniscule amount, if at all in this one, so I think the noise just comes from it being so dark. The bit of tweaking I did have to do was mostly to darken, not lighten. I've got some with the face in full shadow and some with more visable glimpses. This one showed the most face - probably the only one where I'm actually recognizable. Maybe it is jaypegging noise? Boy, lighting yourself is next to impossible. I obviously needed the shadows to be in very specific areas. ;) However, it was incredibly difficult to know what part were in shadow and what was in light. I ended up having to use a sheet of black construction paper on the light (note to self - order barn doors!) and also, since I needed to turn the light away from me to avoid it being on the backgound, it ended up being pointed almost at the camera, which then necessitated another sheet of construction paper to be taped to the camera to block out the flare. For a very first attempt at real lighting, and the issue of not being able to view the scene thru the lens, being a self-portrait, I was pretty satisfied with the lighting. Of course I appreciate the tip Gayle. :) I'd really love to get some models to work with where I can watch the effects of the light in real-time. This is FUN!

I plan on taking out the white rail on the right. I'm wondering what you mean, Jim, about the midsection though. What are you seeing or not seeing? On my monitor it is dark enough that it does leave one wondering.

I'm thrilled to say I did plan out this shot, down to the detail of the windows, hat, and pearls. It came out in the realm of what I had in mind. It would be soooo much easier to do this with a model instead of as a self portrait, but I got pretty close. Also, this is the first time I've ever shot full manual. I set the focus first to it would not change, then shut off the autofocus. I solved my focusing dilemma by first focusing on the chair then moving the camera back a few inches to allow for the fact that I would come a bit in front of it. (On my sign shots I had the hardest time getting the focus right.) I also put the camera in M mode and selected the ap and shutter speed manually. Normally I shoot in AV unless I specifically have a need for controlling shutter speed. Also my first attempt at real lighting for effect. So, in many ways, this challenge has expanded my comfort zone! LOL!

The idea of the darkness is to hide the parts you shouldn't be seeing. ;) I did some lighter shots as well but these seemed more dramatic. Very strangely, that little strip of light above the hat seems to add some balance. It looked funny without it. Perhaps it adds a touch of subliminal angelic-ness. As for the modeling, old career. Well, actually, old carrer dream that never came to fruition. I'd tried to go the modeling route 20-25 yrs ago but it didn't happen. Seems the only one that ever wanted me as a model was me! LOL! I don't know why - I'm easy to work with, never give the photog a hard time.... LOL!

I'm not as think as you brave I am! LOL!

Rod, I can't wait to see the wife shoot! You are an artiiiiiste; surely you will enhance her beauty. Tell her no worries - long as you are you still aren't long enough to wrap 'round the globe! LOL! Besides, Budget wouldn't approve. ;) Speaking of which, budget haadn't been allowing for many new toys for a while but has now recently alloted a new LaCie monitor, a basic starter set of lights, and now this week, a Sigma Fisheye! I love my Budget so wife really need not worry. :)

~ Lonnit
ctfchallenge22-Jan-2005 03:15
LOL! Oh, you are one BRAVE woman! Good for you!

OK, now the critique. If you are going for dramatic lighting, get the shadows in the right place before you take the shot. It looks like your face was in shadow, then you've lightened it in PS. Now there's some very weird noise happening on your face.
I know this is easier said than done, but something to keep in mind when you're messing with lights.
Cheers,

Gayle
Jim B (MSP)22-Jan-2005 02:49
Lonnit,
A set of great shots. This is the best one IMHO. Then the B/W one.
A few nits : - I would like to see the small light above the hat taken out, as well as the vertical pipe to your left. I also believe that you could darken the mid section just a little, leaving the viewer to look closely and wonder.
Very well done - a nice standard to be set so early in the challenge.

Jim
ctfchallenge22-Jan-2005 02:44
Verrrry sexy! (Good lighting, too.) I like the window in the back and the hat. In the thumbnail and with my eyesight, I actually thought you were in the unspeakable......!! Shu
Julian Hebbrecht22-Jan-2005 02:11
Great shot but just a tad too dark over all in my opinion. I would also clone out the small stripe of light just above the hat. Way to go, Lonnit. A new career as model?
Julian
creativematrix22-Jan-2005 01:53
Wonderful lighting!! Brave model!
Debbi
ctfchallenge22-Jan-2005 01:04
I like this one the best too for reasons stated below. Good job and you are very brave. theFly
Rod 21-Jan-2005 23:10
The wife loved it, & now she is game for a photo shoot. Blind folds will be handed out:-)
PS. Now Mereana has seen how lovely you are, she said I can't talk to you any more:-)
Canon DSLR Challenge21-Jan-2005 22:04
Thanks all for the comments. This was my favorite of the three as well.

Glad you noticed the hat Pops! LMAO!!! ;)

Rod - believe it or not, I did burn out that disk but somehow it felt lacking without it. I ended up putting it back. It was much brighter originally so it's current brightness was a compromise. Yes, that object to the right could stand to be removed. I'll have to do that. Your comments meant a lot to me. BTW, how did the wife like it? LOL!

PS. Maybe a little more detail in the shadows:-)hehehehee
From: Dorys Sosa Prentice Date: 21-Jan-2005 18:39

I don't mind if Iso can't keep it to a G rating. ;) LOL!

Nick, I'm glad you like the lighting b/c it's my first real attempt at "creating" lighting. I got my lights a few weeks ago and this is the first time I was trying anything dramatic.

~ Lonnit
Guest 21-Jan-2005 21:00
Nice hat! ;-) It totally makes the picture.
ctfchallenge21-Jan-2005 20:39
Way to go Lonnit, I like this one best for lighting, color, and mood. Rich
Guest 21-Jan-2005 19:52
*GULP!*
Rod 21-Jan-2005 19:24
Yes seeing the face helps to make this one work the best. I would burn out what looks like a little disc above your head & the bit of background to the right of your right knee (poss a radiator). As the elements here are the floor, chair, you, you, you, (move along Rod) & the window with reflection behind you. You have done a terrific job here Lonnit, I'm proud of ya:-)
PS. Maybe a little more detail in the shadows:-)hehehehee
Guest 21-Jan-2005 18:39
man you have guts!!!!! i like this one of the 3 also. OK, now i want to see how ISO can out-do this and still be rated G. LOL
ctfchallenge21-Jan-2005 18:18
Hey Lonnit,
All three are good but I like this the most. Very good lighting adding to the mood and interesting seductive pose. Well done

Nick