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Phil Douglis | all galleries >> Galleries >> Gallery Twenty Eight: Using symbols and metaphors to express meaning > Keane Wonder Mine, Death Valley National Park, California, 2007
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21-FEB-2007

Keane Wonder Mine, Death Valley National Park, California, 2007

The Keane Wonder Mine produced a million dollars worth of gold from 1903-1916. Today, it is a Death Valley ruin, marked by rusted metal, cracked foundations and rotting wood. I saw an opportunity to make a symbolic image out of the remains of a fence post on its perimeter. It resembles a fallen crucifix, and made me think of the famous “Cross of Gold” speech by William Jennings Bryan at the 1896 Democratic National Convention in Chicago. Bryan, who wanted a US monetary system based on silver rather than gold, warned the convention “not to crucify mankind on a cross of gold.” And so I symbolize the ruins of 100-year-old gold mine with what appears to be a fallen crucifix. I give it context by photographing it upon a pile of the very rocks from which gold was once mined, and contrasting its forlorn profile to the promise of a growing plant in the foreground.

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Phil Douglis12-Dec-2007 04:36
Thanks, Vera, for letting me know that you immediately read the image as a fallen cross, not as a broken power pole.
And Death Valley certainly provides the right kind of context for it.
Phil Douglis12-Dec-2007 04:33
Thanks, Vera, for letting me know how you use my cyberbook. I structure it so that my students can dip into it at any point and study the images, my commentaries, and the comments of my viewers in any order that fit their own way of learning. There is no one right way to study or learn. All I ask is that my on-line students read my introduction first, and then study the first three galleries which are the basis of expressive photography. And then, hopefully, participate in the dialogue by leaving comments on the images that trigger ideas and emotions. I am always delighted when someone takes the time to tell me how my teaching methods are working for their them. Teachers and students alike always value feedback. As for this particular dialogue, I have not discontinued it. It still goes on, as you have just done. It just goes on without Mr. Paxton, whose comments had become demeaning and distracting. As you say, my time is much better spent helping those, like yourself, who value such help.
Guest 12-Dec-2007 01:16
By the way, the first thing I thought of when I saw this image was a cross. A power pole never crossed my mind. Then I read "Death Valley" and still thought "cross."
Vera
Guest 12-Dec-2007 01:14
Phil,
Wow, what a series of comments. It is like this for me...when I am studying a chapter in your book, I first go through and look at every image. Initially, I don't read your words. I look at the photos, spending more time on photos that stir me for some reason. I think about why it is so, then I read your comments. Sometimes we see different things, sometimes we don't. I learn from your meaning, then try to share mine with you. If there is a photo that did not grab my attention, I read the comments and learn...why didn't I think of that. Your way of teaching works for so many of us. I'm glad that you simply discontinued the dialogue. Some things just aren't worth the time spent on them, and your precious time is soooooo much appreciated by others.
Vera
Phil Douglis26-Jun-2007 21:46
Thanks, Aloha, for adding your own iterpretations to this image. You are right -- a truly expressive photograph should have multiple interpretations, depending upon the context that viewers will bring to it. I wanted to say something about about the famous "Cross of Gold" speech that made history just a few years before this mine was in operation. Others will see additional meanings, such as your own views. I am delighted that this particular image has triggered so many thoughts and ideas, and if it helps photographers learn about the role of symbols and metaphors, it was worth making and posting here.
Aloha Diao Lavina26-Jun-2007 00:47
What struck me about this image is the haze-filtered background of the slopes in the distance, and against it the sharp, stark crucifix. For me it symbolizes very well the jagged sharpness of sacrifice for a distant and invisible future. Perhaps this was something of the lives of those gold miners. Perhaps this was something of the passion of Christ. I like that this image is open to so many interpretations, a thought trigger for why we choose to make the images we do.
Phil Douglis08-Mar-2007 18:46
Thanks, Kal, for these comments, and for seeing the symbolic value of this image. Coming from you, an artist that I hold in high regard, they mean a great deal to me. You validate my own thinking here -- Mr. Paxton and I simply do not see the process and purpose of making photographs in the same way. He seems to take great pleasure in debate for the sake of debate. Many of his own images show me a fine craftsman in pursuit of technical perfection, rather than a story-teller using expression or communication. He feels that there are acknowledged standards that decide whether an image is "successful" or not. I feel that the effect of an image on the imagination of the viewer is the sole factor in determining its "success" as expression. He also failed to respect and appreciate the learning context in which my images are presented. So it is only natural that our views of the medium would be in conflict. Our views have clashed on many images in these galleries. I agree with you that substantive debate is healthy for learning. I also agree with you that Mr. Paxton's remarks were ultimately intended to be critical of me personally, rather than to help others learn. When he implied that my ideas were fabrications -- lies -- he most certainly crossed the line of civility, and for that reason, I've ended our debates. There is no room for personal attacks or hostility in my cyberbook, and Mr. Paxton is no longer welcome to participate in the dialogue here.
Kal Khogali08-Mar-2007 14:14
I have visited Mr Paxton's galleries, and am surprised at his comments, which appear more intended to be critical of you rather than add value. Many of his images are symbolic, and certainly offer me no context either, and so persumably in his interpretation, have no meaning (ofcourse I don't agree). If he had also noted the title of this gallery, symbolism is at it's heart, and whether you see that symbol as an individual is measured at the individual level. I did see a cross, did I see a mine?, no, but I did see a cross, in the middle of nowhere and that created enough tension in the image to make it expressive. In itself it is a well composed and interesting image. I think Zane misses the point, that all symbols when abstracted by their nature are vague in context. A US flag, a symbol of America, does not in itself mean you stand on american soil, but it does symbolise patriotism regardless, to many. To have a debate is healthy, but Zane, I believe you have crossed the line of civility and tolerance. Rgds, K (an aspiring photographer)
Phil Douglis06-Mar-2007 04:46
Thanks, Jenene, for saying what needed to be said here. I am reluctant to speak of the ultimate value of my teaching methods here -- it is better that my students, such as yourself, voluntarily answer Mr. Paxton's remarks about the validity of my teaching. For the benefit of open dialogue, I have allowed him to speak his piece on my site about many of my images and commentaries, and I have answered him with civility and great patience. Ultimately, this evening's rude and uncalled for remarks regarding not only the validity, but the integrity of my intentions and ideas have caused me to terminate his participation in my cyberbook. Thanks, Jenene for speaking up. I particulary appreciate your mention of the diversity and level of independent thinking that I cherish among my students all over the world who have participated in this cyberbook over the last three years. I have responded in good faith and with a sense of integrity to more than six thousand comments below my images here -- in the hopes that we can all continue to learn more about photographic expression from each other. I have always tried to be constructive and positive in my efforts to help people see photographic expression in a new way, people such as yourself, Jenene. Thank you again for saying what had to be said here. Fortunately, the pbase community allows us all to control the content of our own sites, and to that end, my discussions with Mr. Paxton have been concluded.
JSWaters06-Mar-2007 04:13
I'm astonished at the level of disrespect shown by Zane. To impugne your integrity is inexcusable - all because you won't bend to his side of the argument. I know you need no defending from me, Phil, but in truth, Zane not only insults you, he insults your students as well. "So then you are teaching aspiring photographers (by example)to be dependent on the potential crutch of verbal explantions as an attempt to fill in what might otherwise be missing in the image's composition and expression? Or that any of the images that appear to be fine art or travel photography should in fact only be looked at as examples of photo journalism that requires that I read your written words before I can fully appreciate them?" Sorry, Zane, but some of us are bright enough to understand the intent behind the interplay of images and captions in Phil's cyberbook, and find the examples and text very useful in developing our critical and expressive thinking capabilities. We are not, as you say, "so quick and automatic to buy in". In fact, if Zane ever took the time to look through the galleries of your students, Phil, he would no doubt be surprised at the diversity he found and the level of independent thinking. Sadly, I think Zane misses the point of this cyberbook entirely. It still does nothing to excuse the rudeness.
Jenene
Phil Douglis06-Mar-2007 04:08
I have always believed that words and images together are more potentially more valuable as communication than either words or pictures by themselves. I don't see this as a "right or wrong issue" -- it simply is a matter of my beliefs. Words can often bring valuable context to images, offering meaning that cannot be supplied by the image itself. I don't see this as a weakness in the image at all. As far as this particular image goes, in my view it works very well as an example of a symbol at work as expression. And that is what this teaching gallery is all about. That fact that you interpret this symbol differently than I do does not mean that this image fails as expression. It only means that you and I see expression here differently.

As for your final statement, I resent your contention that my beliefs are fabrications, Zane. They are what I believe. And that is the truth, at least to me. For you to call me, in effect, a liar, was not necessary. It is inexcusable rudeness on your part, and it does not further this discussion. In fact, it has ended it. I see no purpose in continuing this, or any, dialog with you.
Zane Paxton06-Mar-2007 01:05
Hmmmmmm... again.

It would seem that for the greatest learning potential there should also be an open discussion for digging into how an "example" image falls short and how it might have been made more successful.

This important distinction of the image not being visually sufficient(stand alone) without a verabl guide to inform us as to how it was intended to be perceived is not stated clearly in your preamble on the main gallery page...

So then you are teaching aspiring photographers (by example)to be dependent on the potential crutch of verbal explantions as an attempt to fill in what might otherwise be missing in the image's composition and expression? Or that any of the images that appear to be fine art or travel photography should in fact only be looked at as examples of photo journalism that requires that I read your written words before I can fully appreciate them?

"...people will see this as crucifix and will see it in the historical context I offer them in that caption." Thanks very much for that made-up and amusingly written fabrication, but no thanks, my buy-in is not so quick and automatic. Sorry Phil, it's still just too much of a stretch to buy into the written musings as a useful compensation for a visually weak image, even if it is intended as "just an example for purposes of teaching".
Phil Douglis05-Mar-2007 19:20
I don't think you fully appreciate the context in which I made and presentd this image, Zane. It is a teaching image, designed to be absorbed along with my caption. I feel that when viewed along with the caption, people will see this as crucifix and will see it in the historical context I offer them in that caption. You apparently are still looking at my images as stand-alone pictures, in which the context must be present in the picture for it to work. But I come out of a journalism background, where pictures do not stand alone. They always are supported by verbal context. I am a teacher, and I am using words and pictures to teach the principles I believe in. When I look for an image, and when I make an image, it is always with teaching and words in mind. That is my mission. If you continue to view my images as stand-alone pictures, you are viewing them out of the context in which I made them and used them.
Zane Paxton05-Mar-2007 11:47
Hmmmmmmm...

I’m still trying to understand where you are coming from, probably largely because you are so passionate about it. It would seem that you are describing several things here (and in other images) that you apparently feel are highly important that strike me as a *unique* approach and philosophy. As I’m trying to understand what you are arguing for:

1. There is an emphasis in your written dialog as to what kind of thoughts and impressions were occurring in your head (which you have generally described occurring in your post-visualization process after the exposure)...To quote you: “And so I symbolize the ruins of 100-year-old gold mine with what appears to be a fallen crucifix” Sorry, I don’t see any connection between crucifixes and gold mines (i.e. a crucifix symbol doesn’t tell me that this is a gold mine, that makes no sense whatsoever). Without the visual language conveying meaning for what you describe verbally, then you are left forever dependent on using words to convey those (certainly unique and obscure) thoughts.

2. “I make my images to work with my captions, which would give the viewer context to share this image.” So you are saying that you are more concerned with finding scenes and situations that have enough useful “visual fodder” to “hang some (personal) thoughts on”. That seems backwards, but I suppose there is some creativity in that, although it is a new approach and philosophy that is beyond my experience; kind of like a hat that doesn’t fit. I always thought of Context as something that resides in the scene in front of the lens and not something that has to be fabricated out of thin air and whimsy by the artist in order to effectively share the image.

3. There seems to be a heavy focus (pardon the pun) on symbols and symbolism, at least that is what you argue the most passionately for. What I find perplexing is how far you will reach to find and express symbolism no matter how vague, no matter how culturally biased they might be and no matter that they have little or nothing to do with the subject(s).

~I saw a fallen power pole not a crucifix.
~There is no visual evidence of what the place was at all (i.e. the “context”) so the story here is soup thin; it could have just as easily been a fallen power pole along an abandoned road or could be from any number of sites in the desert… Much of Death Valley is composed of exposed rocky hills and it isn’t apparent in this image that this is even a “pile of rocks” that you describe.
~Standing on its own visual merits it’s a weak image compositionally speaking with no special sense of light to give delight to the eye.
~A fallen power pole/fence, etc. has little inherent meaning, particularly with little in the way of context to tell a story.

Phil, you are stretching here, with the usual heavy dose of emphatic and unyielding passion, but it’s still a stretch…
Phil Douglis04-Mar-2007 22:08
As I explained in the caption, the famous "cross of gold" speech was very much on my mind as I made this picture. I make my images to work with my captions, which would give the viewer context to share this image. As for improving the image, I was very pleased with how it worked. If I had my choice, I would have rather made the image at a different time of day with warmer light and expressive clouds, but we were shooting in a group and on a schedule, so I tried to make the best of what I had here.
Zane Paxton04-Mar-2007 21:33
Phil,

I’m curious about your thought process here and what went into the decision to impose such a singularly powerful iconic symbol in this image. To state the obvious, a crucifix has a highly culturally laden meaning that is really pretty distant from an abandoned gold mine in the remote California Desert. More specifically how does such an attempt contribute to this image’s success? There is so little else included in this image but the crucifix symbol that it becomes difficult to make sense out of it. Without your long explanation, a viewer would have no idea that this was at a mine or even what part of the world it might be in. I can only vaguely recognize that it’s in Death Valley by the long view of the mountains in the background because I’ve been there many times. The point is that without a context to interact with and engage the viewer the meaning however symbolic becomes rather thin very quickly…

Perhaps the lesson with the most potential here is that while as photographers we have the advantage of having been there to enjoy the experience that shades the meaning for us, but our viewers haven’t. So what visual elements can we include to convey that experience within the potential and limitations of the visual medium of photography?

Again in the interest of learning, how could this image have been improved upon from your standpoint?
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