Invoice # 160886 Date 02/09/17
Filed Complaint number 2284970
Claim advisor Juan Mendoza Phone 615-937-9154
( this letter has been updated with new findings / information
Dear Firestone,
On Sunday November 26th, 2017 my car ( with 125 thousand miles ) broke down on the side of the interstate. A terrible grinding noise from under the engine was heard and felt. Engine running smoothly so assumed it was the transmission or something else in the drive train. I had it towed it to B and M Automotive in Thomasville ( 336-475-8367 ). That following Monday morning I received report that the gearbox in my 1992 Toyota Corolla DX 2.0 liter 4 cylinder 3 speed automatic transmission ( no overdrive ) had a meltdown due to low or no oil in the casing. My car has a separate gearbox from the transmission but both were in the same casing.
My first thought was Firestone replaced the front drive axles in that car between 1-26-17 and 2-9-17 ( see reciepts in this gallery which was around 9 months prior to the meltdown. Could there be a connection for any reason between the two ? Even so , would it be proveable ? Probably not, however I learned of Lexington NC's Firestone's protocol when changing drive axles as told to me by a nice man named Dale. This was told to my face because I went up there to ask some questions.. " Dale told me " if no oil is lost during the changing of drive axles we dont put any in ". Who am I to argue that any was lost ? I am no mechanic and I was not in the garage when they replaced the axles.
I began asking the mechanics at B & M transmission repair ( where my car was taken ) and was told this..... " 100 % of the time axles are pulled out, some amount of gear drive oil will be lost ". B & M also told me that 8 out of 10 gearboxes due to meltdowns such as mine are due to non sufficient oil being filled in gearboxes after axle relacement.
I told Dale at Firestone what I was told and he said..... " I can tell you that 90 % of the time that drive axles are pulled out that NO oil is lost". So now I am compelled to begin asking around. What was the truth ? Was there any middle ground between these reports ?
I work with a transportation department in my county and all ( 4 ) mechanics there said " you will lose some oil when pulling axles out ". I then went to Facebook and posted my question. Many there including someone who worked once for 33 years said all casings lose oil when pulling out axles. I can post a photo excerpt of this blog if needed. All said some oil will be lost. I also learned from a few that if only 1 axle was to be replaced, many " shade tree " mechanics will raise the car up on one side to prevent oil from being lost.
Now for the important factor to be told if these things I have learned be true. IF NO oil was lost during the extraction of my old worn out front axles ( as your rep claims ) , that SHOULD have been a SIGN / INDICATION to Firestones mechanic that my transaxle differential NEEDED oil at that time. I have been told by B and M Auto through their investigtion ( they said they called 5 places that work on Toyotas ) and was told the casing holds only 2.5-2.6 quarts of oil so there is not much to lose to make the gearbox in need of oil but you will see in this picture gallery there is less than 1 quart of oil that was extracted from my gearbox by B an M automotive. When I told them about having the axles replaced 9 months ago they agreed with my suggestion to sure it when the damaged transmission was removed.
( addition 1-29-18.... it will never be know how much oil was in my gearbox when Firestone installed new axles )
It would be my assumption that a nationwide automotive business such as Firestone would include protocol to notify the car owner of NO oil being lost during the pulling of axles, which would or MAY even indicate a possible casing leak or simply not enough oil in the gearbox for whatever the reason. Remember, if your customers knew such information, they would be insane not to beg for Firestone to FILL UP MY GEARBOX PLEASE and Firestone would make a few extra dollars more and provide a defense for themselves if such an expensive disaster ocurred as the one that happened to me. Had they done this I wouldnt have gone up there quizzing them about things even if my gearbox fried a week after having my axles replaced.
We are at the mercy of Firestones mechanical expertise, we put out trust in you to keep our cars rolling. I would think that filling up a gear box after axle replacement would be included ( and charged for ) especially since the mechanics nose is right there at the gear box. And yes, there was no indication of a leak around the gearbox seals ( where you access these gears via the plate.... not the axle holes ) or the drain nut. ( I have the transmission in my yard now ).
Again... Firestone could make protocol to fill all gearboxes during axle replacement and charge the customer and eliminate any question to whether or not your company could be at fault for such a problem as I have experienced. Also your reps Dale and Jeremy wouldnt have had to use their valuable time listening to me quiz them about protocol. I told Dale verbatim, " had you filled that gearbox with oil, whether or not my gearbox cracked opened and dumped all is oil onto the highway that day they replaced the axles, that I would not be standing right here quizzing them ". That gearbox could have leaked before and after the axle replacement, but again had Firestone filled the gearbox, no questions would have been asked of you.
And you may ask ( I have ) .. " how did my cars gearbox last 9 months after axle replacement ? First I drive only very short distances and there may have been JUST ENOUGH oil to cause the gearbox to make it that long. I also ride my motorcycle about every chance I get and my drive to work is only 5 miles from my house. Again, NO oil lost during axle replacement ?... , then fill up the gearbox. You have heard the quote ' an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure " ?
( addition as of 1-29-18... continue reading and you will see what was eventually found out ).
----------------------------------- Now for one more addition to my letter ----------------------------
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE
Now everything is adding up, no more questions, no more assumptions or guess work.
On January 14 th I took my car to Firestone of Lexington NC ( why, because I was in desperate need of getting rear struts on my car THAT DAY and I did not have time to investigate other alternatives ). Also of that day I stil did NOT know with any certainty how my cars gearbox had got low on gearbox oil which destroyed my gearbox. IF you read before, I had only the knowledge that Firestone did not fill up my gearbox after the axle change, nor brought it to my attention that no gear box oil leaked out of axle holes upon replacement.... when 100 % of the many mechanics I have asked, say " at least some will leak out. Even if it didnt , it would have been nice to have been offered to put MORE in it or change it... something. But onto more important facts. Not long after I began to drive my car ( with the new used transmission ) I took it up to Firestone for suspension work. Dale, who has been very nice to me through this whole ordeal ( but wont get me the purchasing invoice for the left side drivers axle ) brought it to my attention while the car was on the lift that my transmissions gearbox was leaking out of the LEFT SIDE DRIVERS AXLE AREA !!! What was the chance oil leaking out of two different transmissions at the same place ? !!! Be very thankful to Dale because had he not shown me the leak at that axle hole Firestone would ( OR SHOULD ) be liable for two transmission failures and you will soon read why. Continuing. Again I took my car to B and M Transmission in Thomasville NC, to have them inspect what was going on. Their report was the gearbox looked in good shape, no indication that the leak was attributed to the gearbox itself. However...... Bobby McGee Junior ( mechanic there ) brought it to my attention that the axle to which the seal sets on was rough and did not have a mirror like polish that he thought should have. He thinks the rough finish is what degraded the seal causing the leak. He said he has seen this problem a few times before in his many years of transmission work.
Because he thought the transmission was the problem when replacing the transmission and not the axle it went unnoticed. I am not including any charges on his end except for the replacement of the axle itself and labor. The axle should be under warranty at the time of my initial complaint. Should I turn in that axle under warranty, I would no longer have the evidence to which my complaint is justified with Firestone. The axle is still at B and M Transmission and has not been removed from that property after being pulled out of my car and replaced with the correct machined axle.
It has also been brought to my attention that when putting new axles in, that new axle seals are supposed to be installed as well. New axles and new axle seals are sold separately. I do not see axle seals on my Firestone paperwork. Are they supposed to be there ?
Cost to me after axle replacement at Firestone. All reciepts pictured.
1. Tow Job from Happy Hill Towing.------ 50 dollars
2. Used transmission from Matlocks---- 588 dollars and 50 cents
3. Tranmission installment from B and M-- 683 dollars and 64 cents.
4. Axle replacement ( labor only ) ------ 80 dollars
5. Alxle replacement ( part to replace mismanufactured part that Firestone installed-- 75 dollars and 50 cents.
and much headache without having a car to drive during the winter.
Total asking from Firestone --- 1477.64
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I would like for a corporate rep from Firestone to please reply with a letter which includes their protocol of filling or not filling of gearboxes during axle replacement.
I have added a few pictures after this main picture. Simply click NEXT in the upper right hand corner of this picture.
Sincerely
Holland Shoaf
Lexington North Carolina 27295-1987
-----2
Today is 1-30-18 Tuesday, I have posted a few email exchanges. I have heard from NOBODY at Firestone yet !! Also on 1-30-18 I learned from Firestone chat that my claims adviser was no longer Juan Mendoza but is now Camille S. Here I have been waiting for that " immediate " phone call and all the time my claims adviser has been changed without notifying me.
This letter below from Firestone was sent to me on 1-13-18.
I do sincerely apologize that you have not been contacted concerning your issue. This is not normal, and I will be adding an alert to your file, and will be sending it directly back to our claims department for you. Please allow a bit more time to be contacted from your claims advisor once I submit this information.
I do see that there is a claims advisor assigned to your file. His name is Juan Mendoza. This is usually the longest part of the claims process. Here is his phone number so you are able to reach out to your claims advisor: (615) 937-9154. Please provide that individual with your file reference number: 2284970.
If you do not get contacted in a timely manner, please reply back and let me know. Thank you for your time, and patience.
Thank you for choosing Firestone; we appreciate your patience. Have a great day.
Sincerely,
Andrea N.
Firestone Customer Service
The letter ABOVE was sent From Firestone as a response I wrote as you can read below...
Dear Bridgestone/ Firestone. Its been 18 days since I received your letter saying Bridgestone would respond in 5-7 days. I have not heard back from them yet. All I have asked is that if you/ Bridgestone/Firestone pulls front axles out of a transaxle differential and no fluid comes out, would you think it proper protocol to fill up the gear box ? Since I have reported this, I have spoken to numerous mechanics and have not found one ( except Firestone ) that claims at least SOME will flow out of the gearbox when that gearbox was properly filled. Your mechanic said 90% of the axle that he pulls are found not to have fluid come out the axle holes .
IF none flowed out, then it was indicated to be low and the mechanic should have filled the gearbox back up or at LEAST notified the car owner. So what is Firestones proper protocol when pulling axles out of the gearbox after seeing no fluid come out of the gearbox. Fill gearbox, leave it alone without notifying car owner, or notifying car owner ?
Still waiting.
Holland Shoaf
-----------------------------------------
Response By Email (Marissa T.) (12/26/2017 06:41 PM)
Good Evening Holland,
Thank you for your recent feedback on our web site. I am truly sorry to hear about the gearbox had a meltdown due to low or no oil in the casing. I can definitely understand your frustrations. We appreciate your business and thank you for giving us the opportunity to resolve this issue.
To make sure we have the correct information in your file, could you please reply with your most current address and phone number?
In the meantime, we have escalated this information to our Claims Department on your behalf for resolution. Your reference number is: 2284970. You will receive a response from a Claims Advisor within the next 5-7 business days with an update.
If you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us via chat, email, or by phone (1-800-367-3872).
I want to thank you for choosing Firestone. We do value your business and appreciate you for being a loyal customer. I hope you have a wonderful night!
Sincerely,
Marissa T.
Firestone Customer Service
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Response By Email (Zachary W) (01/25/2018 10:19 AM)
Good Morning Holland,
Thank you for the providing that additional information. I have updated that information in your claims, and re-sent that up to your claim advisor. I also requested that you are contacted immediately.
If you need anything else, please do not hesitate to reply back to this email, and I will help you in anyway that I can.
Thank you for being a Firestone customer, we do appreciate your business. Have a great day!
Sincerely,
Zachary W.
Firestone Customer Service
3 Dear Camille S, through online chat with Firestone, I found out that Juan Mendoza is no longer my claims adviser and you are. Please let me update you with my claim.
Dear Firestone/ Camille S, I have updated my dilemma with what has happened to my car after Firestone installed 2 front axles on my car. I have created a gallery with pictures of receipts and pictures of the wrongly (RE)manufactured axle that was installed and the subsequent damaged seal because of it.
I can also share pictures if need be of the leak around the axle that Dale sent me when my car was up on the lift ( at Firestone of Lexington NC ) during the suspension work job I had done (AFTER I had a new used transmission installed ) . Picture of that receipt is in this gallery.
Click NEXT in upper or lower right hand corner on any picture to proceed to next picture. Important information is typed under some of the pictures. I have not yet received any personal and directed response on what Firestone intends to do about the costly repairs that has incurred to me due this axle that was installed at Firestone.
Gallery starts here. http://www.pbase.com/kippercat/image/166756361
I would like a reply very soon about this complaint.
Sincerely
Holland Shoaf
1-30-18 Tuesday 8:09 pm Eastern
CAMILLE S.
844-247-5165
BRIDGESTONE.CLAIMS@STARTEK.COM
--4
Love your thoughts and thanks for sharing. First I went up to Firestone and asked for the purchasing information from the fellow in charge of my car. He said " I cant get it " and said this in front of two of his employees. That was enough for me. Secondly he took the wrongly tooled axle ( not him but his head mechanic ) and slipped the new axle seal over the axle ( where it should have been smoothly polished but instead it was not ). That rough finish is what ate into my seal causing it to drip. There was nothing to do except replace worn axle shafts . On top of that they did not fill up my gear box because they said " IF no fluid leaks out... we dont put any back in ". 100 % of the 8 or 9 mechanics I have spoke to said " if the gear box had enough fluid in it at least some would have ran out when exchanging axles... and if none came out it would have been a sign to for the mechanic to fill up the gearbox. No such offer was made to me. Thats another issue I have included with the axle issue. I am in the process of getting another axle to take pictures of the bad one and the new good one so that any judge can see that Firestone installed a badly tooled axle. I have the original destroyed transmission for inspection and the drivers side front axle that Firestone installed.I even have the damaged seal and the original 1/2 quart of gearbox fluid that came out of the damaged gearbox when it should have had 5 times that much. Even if they installed a good axle and my fluid was as low as i found it, I don't think ti would have lasted 10 months before breaking down. Anyway you look at it, they are guilty of my gearbox failure. Ask me any question you can think of. O and I cant find part info for new seals on my Firestone bill. Did they install new axles in a car that had 125,000 miles on it without installing new seals ?
5
Dear Camille S, first of all I can almost bet you didnt read my whole story because I assume you didnt have the time. But since we have made it this far, I ask you to read this last letter before I consult with an attorney or even plan to go to small claims court myself.
I dont know who told you to write what you did , but that short one sentence excuse has absolutely nothing to do with my complaint. It appears with such a reply that my complaint was not all read or ingested. Saying that Dale showed the transmission leak when I was having my struts replaced has nothing to do with Firestone installing a faulty axle MONTHS before this when my first transmission failed. It is not relevant at all.
You wrote " On 1/4 when you returned to the store for struts you were shown the leaks from the transmission ". It that all there is to your defense ? Is that all the explanation your allowed to give or was given to you ?
This had absolutely nothing to do with Firestone installing a faulty incorrectly tooled axle. The reason I sent that picture Dale sent me was to prove that the axle that Firestone installed in my cars original transmission which broke down 9 months later , was making my 2cd ( that is second ) transmission leak from the gearbox axle hole. Dale didnt SEE my first transmission leaking, he never did. He saw fluid leaking from my 2cd transmission . The second transmission is still working. Do you understand this please ?
1. Firestone installed axles in my orignal transmission on ------1-26-17
2. My cars original transmisson gear box broke down on ------ 11-26-17
3. B and M Automotive installed a used transmission in my car on --- 12-6-2017
4. Firestone installed rear struts on --------------------------------------- 1-4-2018
( Dale notified me of my second transmissions leak on the same date )
5. Took my car to B and M Automotive the next day. Upon their
inspection they found axle that Firestone put in was faultly tooled ( as shown in the many pictures ). This is when Bobby McGee Junior said " this is the origin of all your problems".
If you look at the dates above you will see that Dale showing me my transmission leak of my 2cd transmission had NOTHING to do with my original transmission failure.
IF it goes far enough, I hope to have testimony from the transmission mechanic who replaced the axle that Firestone installed with another axle ( the same part number ) ! He is the one that made the call about the axle Firestone installed. Not me.
Before this transmission mechanic made any definite claim as to Firestone of Lexington installing a faulty axle, we waited for the newer axle to come in to compare them. He already noticed the mistooled axle that Firestone installed but to make a final judgment we waited for the newer axle to come in and yes... the newer axle was smoothly polished where the axle seal set, unlike the axle that Firestone installed. Your axle ( with the rought tooled area ) deterioriated the seal allowing the first transmission to lose fluid ( over time till it broke down ) . And by the grace of God the struts on the back of my car needed replacing not long after I had the 2cd transmission put in my car ( allowing Dale to see for himself that the there was indeed a leak CAUSED BY the axle Firestone intalled ). This is beyond coincidence that two transmissions would leak oil from the drivers side axle hole without their being something wrong with the axle. Dont believe this, ... then we can let a judge decide.
I have the axle seal Firestone used ( pictures have been sent already ). Both axle and seal can be brought to court if need be. This is a clear cut case of negligence. I have all documentation to form a small claims court case and hopefully with the testimony of this transmission mechanic there should be no valid argument from Firestone.
What I'm confused at as I sent all these pictures of the mistooled remanufactured axle, the damaged seal which was caused by this axle and Firestone threw it out the window and had you write me that short note about Dale showed me the leak on 1-4. Your managment must misunderstood my complaint .
And take note, I went to Firestone and tried to get purchasing information from Dale for that axle and he said " I cant get it". He said this in front of Sherri and the head mechanic there. I am not making any of this up. This report of the bad axle is what Bobby McGee Junior at B and M Automotive told me. My first claim was of Firestone not filling up my gearbox after a axle replacement job ( when seeing that no oil leaked out ) was true and worth noting, but at that time it was the only thing I had to go on. But it wasnt proveable that not filling up the gearbox was the reason for my grearbox to breakdown. I " HAD ONCE " thought it was possible that the gearbox failure was due to break down after 125 k miles regardless of the axles being changed by Firestone , UNTIL I saw that only 1/2 quart of oil was in my gearbox when specifications say it should have been 2.5 -2.6 quarts. So how did it get that low ? Had it been that low when Firestone installed those axles or do you think ( or would a court think ), that my car would have 10 months after the installation with 1/2 court oil ? That is 5 times less oil than what it needed to be ! Even if Firestone installed a non faulty axle and my gear box was low at the time of that installation , filling up my gearbox with fluid would have saved it. But having a non faulty axle installed was not what happened.
After Dale showed me the leak from the 2cd transmissions driver side axle hole and the subsequent report from B and M everything added up. In fact I remember Bobby McGee Jr saying ( paraphrasing if not verbatim ) after he pulled the axle out during the transmission inspection and noticed the axle that Firestone installed.... " I think we found the origin of all your transmission problems "
Does Firestone think that excuse you just sent me would do them justice in court ? I will wait another week to hear a reply to this letter. If Firestone will not honor my claim, I will seek legal action. An apology for such a long letter but my desire is to clear up what appears to be some confusion on your part.
Sincerely
Holland Shoaf
2-7-18
Dear Camille S, You wrote
" On 1/4 when you returned to the store for struts you were shown the leaks from the transmission ". / Is that all the explanation I am to receive after sending you so much testimony which includes knowledge from over 10 mechanics including the one that replaced my transmission ? Is this your words or what someone told you to write back ? Either someone did not read my story in its entirety or someone ( or group ) didn't ingest the pertinent key points so I am going to do my best to make this clear. I ask you to read this letter in its entirety before I consult with an attorney or even plan to go to small claims court myself. I believe what happened to my original transmission is a clear cut case of negligence. With picture proof, testimony of a certified mechanic and the axle and seal that Firestone installed I hope my case will be a simple and short one. If Firestone thinks they are not liable for the damage to my original transmission it would be best that Firestone send me something other than that one sentence explanation you did that had nothing to do with my claim. But moving forward for clarification and my last attempt before seeking legal advise.
Saying that Dale showed the transmission leak when I was having my struts replaced has nothing to do with Firestone installing a faulty axle MONTHS before this when my first transmission failed. It is not relevant at all.
The reason I sent that picture Dale sent me was to prove that the axle that Firestone installed in my cars original transmission which broke down 9 months later , was making my 2cd ( that is second ) transmission leak from the gearbox axle hole. Dale didnt SEE my first transmission leaking, he never did. He saw fluid leaking from my 2cd transmission . The second transmission is still working. Do you understand this please ?
1. Firestone installed axles in my orignal transmission on ------1-26-17
2. My cars original transmisson gear box broke down on ------ 11-26-17
3. B and M Automotive installed a used transmission in my car on --- 12-6-2017
4. Firestone installed rear struts on --------------------------------------- 1-4-2018
( Dale notified me of my second transmissions leak on the same date which is 1-4-18 )
5. I took my car to B and M Automotive the next day. Upon their inspection they found the driveres side axle that Firestone installed was faultily tooled ( as shown in the many pictures ). This is when Bobby McGee Junior said " this is the origin of all your transmission problems".
If you look at the dates above you will see that Dale showing me my transmission leak of my 2cd transmission had NOTHING to do with my original transmission failure due to the axle Firestone installed and the subsequent loss of fluid resulting in my original transmissions gearbox failure.
IF it goes far enough, I hope to have testimony from the transmission mechanic who replaced the axle that Firestone installed with another axle ( the same part number ) ! He is the one that made the call about the axle Firestone installed. Not me.
Before this transmission mechanic made any definite claim as to Firestone of Lexington installing a faulty axle, we waited for the newer axle to come in to compare them. He already noticed the mistooled axle that Firestone installed but to make a final judgment we waited for the newer axle to come in and yes... the newer axle was smoothly polished where the axle seal set, unlike the axle that Firestone installed. Your axle ( with the rough tooled area ) deteriorated the seal allowing the first transmission to lose fluid ( over time till it broke down ) . And by the grace of God the struts on the back of my car needed replacing not long after I had the 2cd transmission put in my car ( allowing Dale to see for himself that the there was indeed a leak CAUSED BY the axle Firestone intalled ). This is beyond coincidence that two transmissions would leak oil from the drivers side axle hole without their being something wrong with the axle. Dont believe this? ... then we can let a judge decide.
I have all documentation and parts to form a small claims court case and hopefully with the testimony of this transmission mechanic there should be no valid argument from Firestone so if you want to set this in motion, have it said I have asked for the last time to honor my claim.
And take note, I went to Firestone and tried to get purchasing information from Dale for that axle and he said " I cant get it". He said this in front of Sherri and the head mechanic there. IF I cant approach the axle manufacturer, then the burden must be upon Firestone.
I am not making any of this up. This report of the bad axle is what Bobby McGee Junior at B and M Automotive told me. My first claim was of Firestone not filling up my gearbox after a axle replacement job ( when seeing that no oil leaked out as Dale claimed ) was true and worth noting, but at that time it was the only thing I had to go on. But it wasnt proveable that not filling up the gearbox was the reason for my grearbox to breakdown. I "ONCE " thought it was possible that the gearbox failure was due to break down after 125 k miles regardless of the axles being changed by Firestone , UNTIL I saw that only 1/2 quart of oil was in my gearbox when specifications say it should have been 2.5 -2.6 quarts. So how did it get that low ? Had it been that low when Firestone installed those axles do you think ( or would a court think ), that my car would have lasted 10 months after the installation with 1/2 court oil in the gearbox ? That is 5 times less oil than what it needed to be ! Even if Firestone installed a non faulty axle and my gear box was low at the time of that installation , filling up my gearbox with fluid would have saved it. But having a non faulty axle installed was not what happened and I have the proof.
After Dale showed me the leak from the 2cd transmissions driver side axle hole and the subsequent report from B and M everything added up. In fact I remember Bobby McGee Jr saying ( paraphrasing if not verbatim ) after he pulled the axle out during the transmission ( my 2cd transmission ) inspection and noticed the axle that Firestone installed.... " I think we found the origin of all your transmission problems "
Does Firestone think that excuse you just sent me would do them justice in court ? I will wait another week to hear a reply to this letter. If Firestone will not honor my claim, I will seek legal action. An apology for such a long letter but my desire is to clear up what appears to be some confusion on your part and it if is not confusion, then it is arrogance and flat out denial of facts.
Sincerely
Holland Shoaf
2-7-18
Imagine your car having new drive axles put in them and 10 months later your transmission breaks down to lack of gearbox fluid . Do some checking and find out that the garage who installed your axles DID NOT USE NEW AXLE SEALS. They re used your 121000 mile 25 year old cars axle seals !!!!!
