Ah... the red ones, I like them better than the blue ones, I have this metal ornemented gazebo, painted white and last year, I planted those on the corners. I thought they had died and when spring came along... I was sure they had died. Today, they're about 5 feet tall and climbing. I guess it takes 3 to 5 years before you have something that stands out. It's sure is nice climbing on the exterior wall of a house etc., thanks for the thought Jim...