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Phil Douglis | all galleries >> Galleries >> Gallery Three: Expressing human values > Conversation, Third Avenue, New York City, 2006
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08-AUG-2006

Conversation, Third Avenue, New York City, 2006

Edward Hopper’s famous 1942 painting “Night Hawks” ( http://www.artic.edu/artaccess/AA_Modern/pages/MOD_7_lg.shtml )
has played a significant role in my own urban photography. His work speaks of urban alienation, and lack of communication. I often make images that echo his concerns. However on this visit to New York City, I wanted to make a contradictory statement, asserting that both friendship and communication, pivotal human value, can exist in environments very similar to the one that Hopper uses in “Night Hawks.” This image does precisely that. Hopper’s painting is cased in lonely darkness. I set my image in the context of an early morning – the sun bathes the sidewalk and building in splashes of warmth. As with Hopper, the viewer stands outside, looking in. However I found two women communicating here through both speech and human gesture -- factors deliberately lacking in the Hopper painting. They may be alone, but they are not lonely. They have each other, and the whole coffee shop is theirs as they start the working day.

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Phil Douglis14-Nov-2006 00:44
Thanks, Theodore -- please keep asking questions, and if you would have made the image differently (not "better"), be sure to tells how and why. There are many effective ways to interpret the same subject. Just be sure to avoid judgemental, non-constructive suggestions -- always have good reasons for your ideas.
Guest 13-Nov-2006 07:19
Point taken and i'm glad to pointed that out to me. I dont think i used the term "framing" correctly though. I understand that the way you framed the photograph expressed what you wanted to and i totally agree with you that it was framed correctly. I meant it to mean something else when i used the word "frame" but it was a bit hard to describe it. Thank you givng me that feedback. :)
Phil Douglis12-Nov-2006 19:55
Glad you enjoyed the message of this image, Theodore. As for my framing here, I very carefully framed this image to isolate these woman in space, giving them the space they need to shut out the world. That is my point here. How could the framing be any "better?" If you were to frame it differently, it would no longer express what I am trying to get across here. Instead it would express your own ideas. Which is fine, but it would not be any "better," than mine, only different than mine. Avoid judgemental words such as "better" or "worse" when evaluating expressive images, Theodore. The value of a photograph should never be considered as a matter of comparative judgements. Expression can't be judged in that way. Our choices in framing an image should reflect our own purposes, not abitrary rules or customs or conventions established by others.
Guest 12-Nov-2006 13:30
I love this picture! They are both so intense. The way the speaker is expressing herself and the way the listener is so absorbed. I feel the framing could have been a little better, though.
Phil Douglis07-Oct-2006 22:00
Agher, I do not use a flash -- ever. It fills in the shadows that abstracts the subject and creates unnatural looking images. When photographing people, it calls attention to the photographer and creates unnatural responses. Our digital cameras can handle most lighting situations without using flash. I do not use filters either. I do adjust white balance to "cloudy" to make my images a bit warmer, and of course I adjust the color, if need be, later in Photoshop.
Phil Douglis07-Sep-2006 22:38
Good question, Philippe. First of all, I use the Hopper reference here as counter-context. Hoppers images express alienation. This one, which is similar in content (diners seen from the street, within a restaurant) is the opposite in tone. It is optimistic rather than alienated. I use my titles for context only -- I usually call my pictures by a neutral, factual name, as I do in this case, along with location of the photo and the year in which it was made. I don't want my titles to influence the thinking of my viewers, at least in this particular case. Hope this helps, Philippe.
pep07-Sep-2006 21:21
What Cecilia said. I think that the picture speaks by itself, and thus the reference to Hopper's work, although very interesting, is accessory to the understanding of the picture. Also, I am not sure if this picture really does convey the idea of urban alineation, for nothing suggests urbanity, apart from the title. That's actually a question: to what extent do you believe a title is acceptable to the appraisal of a picture? Quidquid id est, another very nice picture of yours.
Phil Douglis23-Aug-2006 00:09
That is why this image is in my Human Values gallery, Celia. In this case, it is the human value of companionship that warms the image and tempers an otherwise cold and materialistic world. There no city on earth as materialistic as New York City -- it is the vast economic engine of the most productive country on earth. Their flesh and blood connection warms a soulless city as nothing else can.
Cecilia Lim22-Aug-2006 20:14
You fill much of your image with coldness - walls of glass, rigid steel, grey cement, hues of blacks and greys, and inanimate, lifeless objects. Yet in the corner of this very cold and lifeless world, there is love and friendship. Their skintones radiate with warmth against their dull surroundings and even their golden hair glints in the sun. They are oblivious to their surroundings, connected only with each other. This may be a cold and materialistic world, but you seem to tell us that it doesn't matter when you have people in your life. A touch of humanity is all you need to bring light into your world, as we see it happening here, literally.
Phil Douglis18-Aug-2006 18:16
Yes, this image does go against the stereotype of urban loneliness, Ai Li. Your comment is an eloquent plea for humanity. Urban environments often are dehumanizing because of the need for safety, expedience, and convenience. Yet there can be room to sit back, as these women are doing, take a break, and communicate.
AL18-Aug-2006 08:05
Phil, I like your contradictory statement being made here. Very often we witness urban isolation and individualism in our own country and other places. How could we be alone when we are surrounded by people? Here you'd captured two people, only two, in an empty cafe along an empty street. Two who're willing to take a break from their own scedules and strike a conversation. Suddenly everything seemed to come to a standstill, telling us to stop, to look around, to listen, and to start a conversation with the person nearest to us right now.
Phil Douglis16-Aug-2006 22:53
My image is based on those contradictions to Night Hawks, Jude. You mention two of the most important -- the sense of personal engagement of this scene, vs the alienation expressed by Hopper's characters and the warmth of early morning light vs the loneliness of night that surrounds Hopper's diners. And yes, even in the middle of a New York City rush hour, there is still room for relaxed interaction. The mood was quite different a few blocks west: seehttp://www.pbase.com/pnd1/image/65089816
Jude Marion16-Aug-2006 15:00
Phil, this is contradictory to "Night Hawks' in many ways, as you have already listed. I think there are two things that really hit me, tho, - the interaction between the two women and the presence of light. Unlike Hoppers people, these women are not isolated or alone, but obviously know each other and engaged in an animated conversation. The viewer doesn't feel the loneliness and detachment that Hoppers painting creates. Here, the day light creates a sense of warmth and hope in the urban environment. We know this is NYC, from your title, but instead of the hustle and bustle one associates with that city, we see people enjoying a relaxed interaction. I like how the two women are centred in a light space within the resaurant as well that seems to highlight their presence there.
Phil Douglis13-Aug-2006 22:42
Thanks for picking up on the colored mosaic at the base of the shop, Tim. I saw it as a positive metaphor as well.
Tim May13-Aug-2006 20:56
And they are supported by a rich mosaic of color - I hope that this represents the richness of their lives that they are sharing over morning coffee.
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