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Dick Osseman | all galleries >> Kars and Ani and some Hopa >> Kümbet Camii > Kars building
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20-Aug-2018

Kars building

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One of some old slides (1998) I scanned and edited anew in 2018. The Kümbed Camii, a mosque. Or rather, its name translates as "domed mosque", but it was built as a church under Abbas I in 930-937


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Gary Malkhassian 23-Mar-2010 17:19
Thank you Dick for taking all these nice pics. This gives me a chance to 'visit' the land of my grandparents where, chances are, I will not be able to visit in person.

This architecture is unmistakenly an Armenian Church. No matter what it has been used for after 930-935

I have been viewing all of your pics in many of the cities you have and are visiting. Thanks for all the good work!
Guest 11-Jan-2010 06:19
Dick,

You are doing a great job, and I agree that if a building is used as a mosque (or a sinagogue, or else), it should be named that way. These cases involve a different kind of sensitivity, however, compared to Roman or pagan examples, because the former users (more exactly their first, second, or third generation heirs) of these building are still around, and they did not have the choice to leave, or emigrate. They were forcibly removed and their possessions confiscated, including what they considered a sacred place. That warrants the search for a different language, which I understand is not your job, but, anyway, would be nice to have in mind as I think you try to do, although with mixed results. I guess this kind of issues will be common for people acting in many fields, as global tourism, Internet, and universally accessible information become the norm of our planet.

Thanks again for taking the time to post these beautiful pictures.
Guest 09-Oct-2006 20:09
Dick,

Your Ani & Kars series are axcellent. I am neither Armenian, nor Turkish - and so I guess we have to respect here both sides, even if they go too far to emotions.

I plan to visit Ani in some future. Good point of one poster below - www.virtualani.org, however photos there should of have better quality, but in any case virtual tour is excellent.

Dick if you plan to visit Ani next year, you probably should look virtualani.com and retake the photos of the places in Ani beyond the city walls

Andrew
Dick Osseman26-Aug-2006 08:01
My, this is most interesting, I never knew this. I am so glad when people teach me a new thing, fascinating.

Now, did you want to make a point?
Guest 26-Aug-2006 04:24
Mosk os mosk anb the church is the church. There is a great difference between them. I think you should know that!
Karsi 25-Apr-2006 02:00
"Kars" - go to virtualani.org if you want to see many more pictures of your ancestors city.
Kars 19-Apr-2006 10:47
Dick,
I respect you, honestly (though we dont know each other). Simply because you gave me a possibility to see the home of my ancestors. I dont think I will see these places ever personally. So, thank you!
btw, this church witnessed and blessed marriage of my grandmom's parents.
Dick Osseman13-Apr-2006 17:47
I will deign to answer just one question: If this were still a public lavatory I might have decried its function, and called for restoration. My text might have run a bit like "This building that started its life as a church is now used as a public toilet, and its a shame. Restoration to some better life should be undertaken".

The problem for atheists is that we never built temples so never can pick this kind of fight. But I can assure you: it drives me nuts. And as for respect: who respects me? Not you, with your pedantic opening phrase.
Steve 13-Apr-2006 17:02
If you don't want to be "lectured" then the best solution is to protect yourself against the need to be lectured. If you had seen the church in the 1990s, when it was abandoned and used as a toilet, would you have described it as "the Kars public toilet facility" because that is what it was last used for?
The building in questions exists because it was constructed as a church. It has the shape it has because it was designed for use in Christian liturgy. Its correct name is the "Holy Apostles Church". (See www.virtualani.org/karscathedral.htm ). By all means use the word "former", but respect this extraordinary building enough to give due weight to its primary historical identity.
Dick Osseman21-Nov-2005 19:34
I live in a country where former churches have been transferred into shopping centres, offices, houses, museums and yes, mosques. I have visited churches that were founded as Greek or Roman temples. Within the large Artemis temple complex in Sart sits a small Byzantine church, in my mind proudly claiming victory over the former religion, and spoiling the building's former glory. I never heard Christians complain that those monuments should be restored to their former function. To complicate matters, the Red Basila in Pergamon started out as a temple for Serapis, Isis and Harpocrates. The Christians built a basilica within its walls, and now part of the complex is a mosque. The Diyarbakir Great Mosque was built on the site of a former temple, as a church, than was partly used by Muslims and Christians in some sharing system, was destroyed, and now is a mosque.

I myself indicate in my comment that I am aware that this mosque was built as a church. I am aware that for some people what started out as a church will remain a church forever. I am an atheist, and I disagree. I am convinced that Religions come and go, some buildings get a new functions, most are destroyed in the process. That's life for you.

And yes, I read Darian and Fisk on Armenians' fate in the early 20th century, and many other books on Turkish history. Still, this mosque is a mosque to me for the simple reason that that is what it was last used for. If they turn it into a museum next year, to me it's a museum, former mosque, former church.

I don't want to pick a fight, but I don't want to be lectured constantly either.

Dick
Guest 21-Nov-2005 13:21
It is an Armenian church, not a mosque!