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ctfchallenge | all galleries >> CTF Challenge 184 - Many >> Challenge 184 - Eligible > 6th (tie)- Pillars and Pews by Brent
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30-APR-2009 Brent

6th (tie)- Pillars and Pews by Brent

Canon EOS 5D Mark II ,Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
.8s f/14.0 at 17mm iso200 hide exif
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Date/Time30-Apr-2009 22:38:28
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ctfchallenge04-May-2009 07:04
Rod
Dougy......................You never:-)
ctfchallenge04-May-2009 04:57
Did somebody say stitching? Uh oh. Busted. -Doug
ctfchallenge03-May-2009 21:27
Rod
That's the biggest problem when talking about a picy posted here Brent because as you say without being there it's almost imposable to say what we might have done differently. When I say a 50mm lens it's mainly because this image seems to have that field of view whereas a wide angle always looks like the foreground has been pushed away from the viewpoint giving that wide open space look.

As far as getting what we want when shooting a scene I suppose it depends on our thought processes, I seem to think along the lines of what I can capture with what my equipment is capable of ( wot if they created a lens that could take this picy, would that make me think this is a legit picy then? We need to be philosophers a) & any creativeness we may have to capture a representation that conveys the essence of a place.

It's a bit like the photographers I admired when I was last into photography 35 years ago they never tried to fit everything visually into a picy, they used their artistry to convey the same thing in one seemingly simple picy. Now how the bleeding L do mere mortals like us do that:-) Well the fun for me is in trying, sadly I'm very lazy in my second foray into photography with digital to try too hard & my picys show it but just now & then a picy pops up that has these sort of attributes & it gives me far greater pleasure than the "nice" shots I normally take.

If the Pope rang me & asked me to take a picy of this church I would try to do just as you have done here but if me ole mate Bresson rang me up then I would try & create something else................In B&W of course:-)

Just out of interest, at the DP challenge I think they have challenges for no manipulations & for any manipulation in picys. Could you use a tilt & shift lens in the no manipulation challenge yet you couldn't post this in that same challenge?

Anyhow Brent I enjoy these discussion as I learn to question my own shoot from the hip views & hopefully I can come to a more balanced & informed viewpoint about things.
The picy in pending seems more dynamic in some ways but I do prefer this one to look at.
ctfchallenge03-May-2009 19:08
Yes lets not even bring up stitching images Rod mate which I haven't even done since entering the DSLR world :-) I respect your view on this image and lens choice, but can't help but think if you had been there you would have grabbed the same lens. A 50mm lens would have captured great little distortion free snippets of the alter, a window, etc. which could have been part of a multi-image presentation (where representing "many" in each image wasn't a goal). But even then I think one would still want something like this (or the image in pending) to help tie it all together as a whole to present what is most impressive about the place.
~Brent
ctfchallenge03-May-2009 06:40
Rod
Gawd do you know wot I just thought of........Is stitching picys proper.....Lets not go there:-)
ctfchallenge03-May-2009 03:28
Rod
Doug why would you use such an extreme distorting wide angle lens if you need a picy without distortions? You could answer that that you have the software to correct it as does the average photographer that takes little care with the camera also has the software to correct that too. This has the look of a 50mm lens. I would have thought a picy just as good could have been taken with another lens or focal length without distortions which while not showing as much I'm sure would have been just as good a picy as far as showing the beauty & feel of this building. Don't forget I don't mind what Brent has done here for an architectural or commercial picy I'm just talking about art type picys. Now there's another big topic a, what's the difference between art & commercial photography:-)
Poor ole Brent only took this for his Mum & what he's done is perfect for that purpose, unless she's an ahrt luver of course:-)
ctfchallenge03-May-2009 03:01
As much as I understand the argument I respectfully disagree. Computer manipulation to create an otherwise mundane image is not the issue in this picture. There is no attempt to overwhelm us or impress the neighbors with fancy plugins and filters. I find using an available tool to correct the distortion completely acceptable. I do agree that there is a big difference between photography and computer arts each with its own skill set that often mistakenly overlap. -Doug
ctfchallenge03-May-2009 01:49
Rod
As I said below Tommy I'm in a bit of a dilemma whether doing this is right or wrong as far as the art of photography goes. The main difference I see from what Brent did with software & the tilt & shift view camera is the photographer with the view camera ended up with the picy they saw in the viewfinder not something completely different as Brent did.
I would say the tilt & shift type of cameras & T&S lenses we can get for our cameras is they're used mainly for architectural or commercial photography not so much for the art of photography which we're sort of mainly concerned with here. We have many lenses to get many viewpoints & using software to this degree means we could carry just one 50mm lens & create extreme telephoto & wide angle picys just in software just as the very average photographers use their skills in PS to create praiseworthy picys as lots of people don't notice the over PP signature in these shots.
This sort of situation seems to ring the death knell of the art of photography as in photography courses in the future will be 90% on the computer & 10% with the camera. I'm glad I'm a Luddite:-)
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 23:58
Rod, I have to ask what you would say about the old view cameras which use tilt and shift to extreme degrees to obtain this degree of correction which is simply not physically possible in a small format. So, if the correction is made with software, I see no difference in terms of integrity. While I'm not sympathetic to pp manipulation as photography (only as graphic arts), I feel that any software correction available to photographers who cannot afford high end hardware should feel free to use it.
Brent, don't shift this one out for the other unless it's your preference. I've endured too many art & (corrected) architecture books to prefer the uncorrected version. This is quite well done. BTW what is the PT Lens plugin?
-tv
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 14:36
Thanks penny and Shu :-) I might switch this one out for the unfiltered one if I'm in the mood after my morning coffee.
Yes I'll be sure to give you a good thrashing if you use your 10-22 indoors under 17mm Rod and I've already contacted the PT Lens plug-in people, they've agreed not to sell you a license ;-)
~Brent
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 14:20
Nice shot! shu
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 05:43
Rod
Don't forget Brent you can give me heaps when I get me 10-22 lens in a few months time:-)
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 02:33
I keep going back and forth between this and pending. I think I've decided that I prefer the one without the correction. Somehow it just feels right. And it's soooo perfectly lined up - what a beautiful place this is and what a nice job you did! I can't imagine what it must have been like to have a wedding there.... Penny Street
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 01:47
Thanks for the continued feedback Rod. To be honest, I myself am totally fine with the distorted lens view in Pending as I like to see as much of the detail in this Cathedral as possible. It was just a comment over at DPC that even made me think to filter this. I shot this place a year ago with the same lens full wide on my cropped camera and there is just no way around barrel distortion with these up close vertical pillars even then. A 50mm lens would have taken some of the distortion out, but with my back already to the wall here it would have mostly been an image of the alter- a fraction of what you see here. I've never used PT lens so extensively as I did here, but this was an extreme situation. I guess a tilt and shift lens could have been used rather than software, but I'd have to work three jobs to get me one of those ;-)
~Brent
ctfchallenge02-May-2009 01:09
Rod
I'm really in two minds about this much change from the in camera picy in Pending Brent, this has thrown me a real curve ball. I would have thought that by using 17mm on a full frame that you would take into account the extreme wide angle effects that would have on the picy. It's a bit like you should have used a 50mm to get this picy. I just didn't equate 17mm with extreme wide angle when I first commented, maybe because 17mm is not so wide on a crop camera.
I can understand you doing this procedure to give your Mum a better representation of where she got married or as a commercial type picy but as a measure of your photographic skills to be judged by other picy takers this picy would tell me you used the wrong lens or focal length.
I know the different focal length picy would not encompass all you have in this picy but it's really up to us as photographers to get picys that represent the grandeur & feel of a place by our lens choice & how we frame the picy. This picy owes more to the filter you used than your photography I think. I've used small corrections for lens distortion before so I don't know if I'm being hypocritical in my comments as the question of whether stealing $1 is the same morally as stealing $10,000. I will have to think more about this dilemma I'm feeling about what you have done to this picy. Maybe a few beers will help:-)
sue anne01-May-2009 19:15
Beautiful lighting and symmetric.
ctfchallenge01-May-2009 14:09
Thanks Rod and Debi :-) I updated the lens info and I did very much rely on a tripod here Debi. This is Christ Church Cathedral in Victoria B.C., Canada. I mainly took this for my Mum as my parents were married here. I have used the PT Lens plug-in to remove lens distortion on this one. I foolishly posted a copy without the distortion removed I had quickly processed with just two minutes to go before the deadline over at the DPC monthly Freestudy (had nothing else ready). I'm paying for it dearly now with it scoring well below my average :-( I put the lens distorted one in Pending for comparison.
~Brent
ctfchallenge01-May-2009 08:47
Tripod? How did you get the lines straight- great pic - Debi
ctfchallenge01-May-2009 07:48
Rod
Gawd, bugger me this looks really good Brent, it's so good I thought I took it:-)
The details & lighting look superb. I assume this was taken with your 17-40 lens, I've read it works great on the full frame cameras that all the girls are using these days. Magnificent picy mate.