December II* by CindyD by Canon DSLR Challenge

Canon DSLR Challenge | all galleries >> Challenge 79: Rule of Thirds (with Purple) (Host: mlynn) >> Exhibition: Calendar 2007 Images > December II* by CindyD

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10-FEB-2006	Cindyd (SisQue)

December II* by CindyD

Mt. Shasta, Shasta Ski Park

OK, this is the second image I'm trying to make
a Christmas card out of. There was an extremely bright
full moon off to my right and straight up.
The star of course was added - used a light from the Christmas
tree on the previous image and added a flare -

The group of lights on the right is a ski area
lit up for night skiing. I used a starburst filter.

I'm having more
problems with this one converting to CMYK
for offset printing. The blue in the sky
turns to dark purple :(

Your feedback on both of these appreciated.

Canon EOS 20D
51s f/11.0 at 35.0mm iso400 full exif

other sizes: small medium original auto

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Canon DSLR Challenge		30-Oct-2006 17:43
Thanks Olaf - I tried again and this time no out-of-gamut after the conversion. I must have had it still set to rgb somewhere . . . I do find thought that I cannot decrease the magenta very much at all (maybe 5-6%) without the sky banding out and having a green cast - so I will just leave it pretty close to how it converts. Too bad - that color (rgb) would look nice on a glossy greeting card I think. Thanks again for your help. Cindy

Guest		26-Oct-2006 18:32
Cindy, if you understand color-spaces in RGB (sRGB, AdobeRGB, your monitor's color space, your RGB-printer's color space etc, etc), CMYK is no different - they have different names that's all. US Web coated (SWOP) is a colorspace, or color-standard if you wish, for prints on coated paper, widely used as a standard in the US (Web does not refer to the internet web, but rather a much older web of printers...). Find out if this is the color-standard your printer adheres to. If (s)he does, you should be able to get a pretty good preview on your monitor with this image, although there are some CMYK colors that cannot be reproduced on most RGB-monitors, the problem is much bigger the other way around (CMYK has a smaller gamut than does RGB). Regarding the gamut warning, you have to use it in conjunction with the 'Proof Setup' (select Custom... and choose the color space of the printer) and 'Proof colors'. If you're working space is the same as your printing space, you should not get any out of gamut warnings... After doing what I described earlier [converting to CMYK (US web coated SWOP) and turning down magenta in the blues], there is no hint of purple left and I get no gamut warnings. Proof setup is set to 'Working CMYK' and Proofing is on. If your printer uses a different colorspace than your CMYK working space, you could either convert to the desired working space (assuming you have, or can get, a color profile for that color space) or choose the printer's color space in 'Proof Setup' and turn both 'Proofing' and 'Gamut Warning' on. I hope this was helpful. If not, feel free to send me an email...

Canon DSLR Challenge		26-Oct-2006 17:08
Hey Olaf and Victor - I'm working on this cmyk a little this morning. So if I understand correctly if it has an out of gamut warning (I've never used that function before) it won't print that color so I have the double trouble of trying to preserve my brilliant blue when viewing proof colors in cmyk - but that isn't good enough I guess because it still has a gamut warning? aarrrggh! Olaf it doesn't look as purple to me this time around - probably just the ambient light I was viewing in last time. I do have my monitor (the NEC) calibrated with the Pantone Eye-One LT. I am using the US web coated SWOP - whatever that means. I wish I could print these rgb . . .but it is so expensive to go to a photographic print vs. an offset process :( Cindy

Victor Engel		22-Oct-2006 18:04
Here's what I get when I adjust the saturation of magenta/blue (mostly blue) back to a point where there is no gamut warning. From here you would make whatever adjustments you thought were appropriate without triggering the gamut warning. You lose the vivid blue, but that's because it's not printable on the media that matches the profile used for the gamut warning. -- Victor

Canon DSLR Challenge		22-Oct-2006 17:59
Another thing to try: the main problem here is that that blue is out of the color gamut of your target color space. Try selecting View, Gamut Warning (first you have to have the right output color space selected -- I don't know which would be appropriate in your case). Virtually the entire sky disappears into the gamut warning color. Now, make an adjustment to bring the colors into gamut. Perhaps the easiest is to decrease saturation. Do this until there is no gamut warning. Now make any color adjustments you feel are necessary without triggering the gamut warning. -- Victor

Canon DSLR Challenge		22-Oct-2006 17:02
Olaf, I will try exactly what you say - can't get to it until this evening as I have a 'date' with a wall of sheetrock for the rest of the day (and if time permits a sprinkler line ditch :). But I will report back with the results . . .can I post a cmyk online and will it show the actual color?? Thanks Kiki, Cindy

jbhgmvo		22-Oct-2006 16:40
Way out of gamut, but very nice. A good argument for electronic postcards! :)

Guest		22-Oct-2006 16:40
Looks good to me when I choose -20% to -25% on magenta (in 'Blues'), 'Method' in Selective color tool set to 'Relative'. I don't see any purple after that... Is it purple on your monitor - or only when you do a test-print? What CMYK color-space is your Photoshop set up to and what color-space does the printer require (US web coated SWOP)?

Canon DSLR Challenge		22-Oct-2006 16:06
I did play with that Olaf, and never could get rid of the purple! Right now the file is at my local printer and he was going to give a few things a try. I'll see what he comes up with. That whole CMYK conversion thing is a real pain and usually a dissapointment from what I can see. They are printing that huge wall mural I did in cmyk . . . it isn't as royal blue as this, but still, I know it won't be what it is supposed to be! Thanks again, Cindy

Guest		22-Oct-2006 15:58
Or better yet (as you'll be able to preview what you are doing), convert to cmyk first, then use the selective color tool and pull down the magenta slider under 'blues'. This way you don't even have to make a selection either!

Canon DSLR Challenge		22-Oct-2006 15:42
Thanks Olaf - I will give that a try. Cindy

Guest		22-Oct-2006 02:44
Yes, that is a blue that will be hard to reproduce in cmyk. My suggestion: Select the sky then Image>Adjustments>Replace color..., -25 on Hue and -25 on lightness, then convert to cmyk after that. It wont look like this, but at least it won't be purple!

cindyd		21-Oct-2006 14:51
Thanks Melanie and Sharon. I might try moving the star Sharon - thanks! In fact, there is a star that can often be seen right where you describe. I guess I was thinking of this as sort of like the star on top of a Christmas tree or something. Also, if anybody knows how to make a star that looks better - please share! Cindy

elips		21-Oct-2006 03:54
I like this a lot, Cindy! Although, I don't think I would put the "star" right at the peak of the mountain. Perhaps a tiny bit higher and to the left a little so it was between the two peaks would make it look a bit more "natural". You are going to have exceptional Christmas cards this year! ~Sharon

Canon DSLR Challenge		21-Oct-2006 02:34
Another beautiful shot. The ski area looks like a theme park. --Melanie